How to Change the Fluid Reservoir -- Parts No. Upd

[Herleman]

[u]The parts list is updated as of 8/7/2007</u>

I'm including some pictures of this procedure, but the actual credit for the procedure must go to Freek who pioneered this bit of cosmetic surgery. Thanks Freek.


The procedure is quite simple:

[u]Tools needed</u>:

T10 Torx Screwdriver (one on the end of 1/4/ ratchet and extension works well)
This is to remove the small torx screws that hold the canister to the fitting on the brake lever)

4mm hex wrench (this is to remove the screws from the top of mounting bracket)

T25 Torx screwdriver (this is to replace the new screws that hold the top of the brake handle to the handle bar)

Needle nose pliers (this is to remove the small clamp that holds the fluid tube to the top of the fluid fitting)

[u]Supplies Needed</u>:

Towel to catch any droplets of brake fluid (DO NOT LET IT TOUCH ANYTHING PAINTED!!!)

New Can of DOT 4 brake fluid

[u]Parts Needed</u>: (I obtained all from Hammersley Motors in Lynchburg VA -- total cost $55.05 including shipping)

New BMW Fluid Reservoir 34-31-7-658-914

2 plastic screws 32-72-7-675-118 (in spite of the name, they are metal, but they are specifically for screwing into plastic)

2 M5X20 Torx Screws 07 12 9 904 792 to replace the 50mm screws that hold the original bracket to the handle bar (don't forget these, the original screws will be way too long without the bracket)

1 "O" ring 32-72-7-675-117 (this is a new ring for the reservoir. It is probably not needed since all of the original rings are still very new)

[u]the procedure</u>:

1. Remove the reservoir from the bracket using a T25 screwdriver)

2. Remove the 4mm hex bolts from the bracket and remove the bracket

3. Replace the 4mm hex bolts with the T25 torx screws mentioned above (it is important to do this first since you will not want to be moving the brake lever after the reservoir is removed)

4. Clamp off the rubber hose that goes from the reservoir to the fitting on top of the lever (I used a hemostat)

5. Remove the hose from the fitting on the top of the brake lever by loosening the clamp with needle nose pliers then push it off the fitting. Remove the old reservoir and set it aside away from any painted surface (its till full of fluid at this point)

6. Remove the small T10 torx screws from the bottom of the reservoir (I can't describe how to do this, its awkward, but persevere -- they are not tight -- use Irish cuss words)

7. Remove the fitting from the top of the brake lever and cylinder and set it aside away from any painted surface.

8. Check to be sure the the "O" ring is still in place on the brake lever/cylinder (be sure its in good shape -- it probably is since it can't be more than 2 years old at the oldest)

9. Fit the new reservoir to the top of the brake lever and replace the T10 Torx screws that hold it on.

10. Fill the reservoir with new DOT Spec 4 brake fluid and replace the cap tightly.

11. Stand back and admire your work.

12. Dispose of the fluid in the old reservoir in accordance with your conscience (don't poor it in the drain please).

Put all of the old parts in a plastic zip lock bag and hold on to them forever just in case there really was a good reason for the cheap looking bracket and hose arrangement.

[u]The pictures</u>:



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[Herleman]

I just got back from running it about 120 miles up the road and back. I wanted to see if the fluid got all frothy and turned to whipped cream.

It didn't.

And the front brake still works. That's always good.

I guess there may be some issues that caused BMW to make the change, but I'll be darned if I can see what they might have been.

IMHO, it sure looks a lot more BMW-like with the new reservoir.

Lotsa bugs in Florida tonight. Lots and lots of big bugs. At lest two of every variety are now on my visor and the front of my jacket. Yuck.

We need more ducks.

[the1sen]

Originally posted by Herleman

I just got back from running it about 120 miles up the road and back. I wanted to see if the fluid got all frothy and turned to whipped cream.
It didn't.
And the front brake still works. That's always good.
I guess there may be some issues that caused BMW to make the change, but I'll be darned if I can see what they might have been.
We need more ducks.


then WHY? WHY would they have put it there? i want to replace it. hell, i HAVE the parts HERE!!! but i just can't get the BMW dealer owner's words outta my head. awful nice man, i would bring friends or family to him and trust him to sell them a very fair deal.

that said... was it something that popped up in a stunt during a wheelie? was it something where they were getting too much pressure to the ABS unit and used this to help assuage the possible pulsing from the ABS? is the ABS unit on the F800 different from the rest of BMW's minions and if so, is it possible that this unit needs more fluid when engaged, or uses the hose attached at the top to flex somewhat?

Herleman, i know this may be a bit of a scary task to ask of you, but have you engaged the ABS before, and would you be willing to engage it again deliberately in a safe controlled environment to see if it, uh, works ok... or if anything changes?

thank you so much for posting this, sir!!! you're so appreciated!!! i think we could all use a duck here and there... but it's how you use it that's important

[de100kb]

Herleman, thanks for the howto [clap]

One year ago there were some dissatisfied owners who bought the F800 out of the brochure. They were dissatisfied because when they got their bikes delivered it had the high mounted fluid reservoir which was not seen on any photo in the brochure or on the net.

So they filed a formal complaint to BMW demanding a better looking fluid reservoir. One Dutch guy kept mailing BMW NL asking for an explanation until he got the reply explaining the high reservoir was chosen because the marketing department had tested several setups on a German panel and the panel liked the high mounted version best. They said it looked more like a sports bike that way.

BMW specialist Van Harten was the first dealer to really look for a better solution (for their F800 Van Harten Special) and they came up with this one. I have not heard them saying it but I suppose they will have talked to BMW DE before doing so. Now (a.f.a.i.k.) every Dutch BMW dealer does it without a problem, although some of them ask way to much money for it.

So if your dealer says it can't (safely) be done he is either misinformed or just unwilling (or the Dutch dealers are wrong).

[the1sen]

Originally posted by de100kb
So if your dealer says it can't (safely) be done he is either misinformed or just unwilling (or the Dutch dealers are wrong).


is this a fact from forum members, or people you know, or did you see the letter from BMW saying this was not a safety issue, or is this just another "hearsay" like, "all twins and singles cut out"?

[de100kb]

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door the1sen
is this a fact from forum members, or people you know, or did you see the letter from BMW saying this was not a safety issue, or is this just another "hearsay" like, "all twins and singles cut out"?


I formulated my last reply in this tread very carefully The1sen so you might read it again. I know Van Harten is one of the leading BMW tuners and in close contact with BMW DE and I trust them and my own dealer completely.

I resent you misquoting my earlier remark. I never said all twins and singles cut out. I said I was told they are more prone to cutting out, the reason being the lighter flywheel and other parts of the engine. I also said I might be mislead on this subject.

[Aether]

Originally posted by the1sen
is this a fact from forum members, or people you know, or did you see the letter from BMW saying this was not a safety issue, or is this just another "hearsay" like, "all twins and singles cut out"?


..or saying the noise you hear from your F800 is from the "dry clutch"? [huh2]

-A

[Herleman]

the1sen:

I tested the ABS. I did several tests, one from slightly over 65mph (high speed to me).

In each instance, the ABS worked perfectly. No problems.

de100kb:

I think your explanation is the most plausible. There are some Suzuki sport bikes that have the same sort of oil derrick holding their reservoir. Perhaps to some its an image thing, who knows.

I do know that I find the original to be unsightly, and the revision is a major improvement.

I find it inconceivable that the F800 could subject the reservoir to more stresses than are present in the K1200 or R1200 donor bikes.

The threshold issue is that I like it better this way. In the end, little else matters.

de100kb:

I've not seen Freek on the board for some time. If you see him, please share my thanks for sharing this modification with us.

John

[the1sen]

Originally posted by de100kb

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door the1sen
is this a fact from forum members, or people you know, or did you see the letter from BMW saying this was not a safety issue, or is this just another "hearsay" like, "all twins and singles cut out"?


I formulated my last reply in this tread very carefully The1sen so you might read it again. I know Van Harten is one of the leading BMW tuners and in close contact with BMW DE and I trust them and my own dealer completely.

I resent you misquoting my earlier remark. I never said all twins and singles cut out. I said I was told they are more prone to cutting out, the reason being the lighter flywheel and other parts of the engine. I also said I might be mislead on this subject.


indeed.

i did not misquote you at all, sir. you said:


By the way: if you are so afraid for cut outs: don't ride a twin or a single because they all seems to be prone to cut outs sometimes. My Honda Revere (NTV650) did cut out on me once every 1000 km or so and it is considered normal for that type of bike.


and since you were misled, and admitted to it later on in the thread, i was not "picking on you." i was asking you in a practical manner if this was another possible "misleading" from someone you "heard it from" or if it was more factual.

in this case, you are stating it is more factual and direct experience, and i appreciate the clarification.

apologies if you took offense. in no way did i misquote you, however. and i resent the fact that you deem it necessary to question my reasons for making my inquiry about your remark since you have in the past given out vehemently inaccurate information like this.

[the1sen]

Originally posted by Herleman

the1sen:
I tested the ABS. I did several tests, one from slightly over 65mph (high speed to me).
In each instance, the ABS worked perfectly. No problems.


well cool. first, i am glad it works, since brakes are nothing to shake a stick at. they kind of HAVE TO work.

this is a mod i have wanted to accomplish since i saw it first on de100kb's bike. let us hope that it continues to function properly for all our sakes, since i am about 1/8" from pulling the hair trigger on doing it.

thanks for doing this John.

-joe

[Herleman]

How 'bout if everybody comes to all stop on making this mod till I put about 1000 miles on it.

I kinda feel like if it gets me through that with no issues, it is safe to presume that the mod is OK.

There is no real stress on the reservoir. It is not a pressure vessel, and its only job is to maintain readily available fluid for the brake cylinder. I think we can safely conclude that the only way that air could get past the fluid in the reservoir is if it is "bubbled" in through some sort of foaming.

I'll keep a close eye on the fluid container as I put the next 1000 miles on it. The next few weeeks will include some high altitude riding in Colorado and Wyoming as well as some sea level stuff between here and the Space Center. I'll have some miles on the superslab and a lot of back road stuff with accelleration and deceleration and a lot twisties. Should be a good period for a test.

I'm not concerned given that there is an excellent rear brake that is completely untouched by this change and so far, the change is completely uneventful. Moreover, de100kb confirms that this is a normal mod from dealers on the continent.

So far, I've put about 275 miles on the bike since the change. Its near 100 degrees here, and I would think that if the fluid was prone to foaming, it would do it a high temperatures more readily than at low temps. It looks perfectly boring in the reservoir right now. No bubbles, and no change in the fluid level since I filled the bowl.

Keep your fingers crossed, but I really think this is an OK mod.

[maverik88]

Greetings all,
Thanks again to Herleman and Freek for their help on this one. I've heard several times from sportbike owners and dealership salesmen that this reservoir location is very popular on sportbikes. I've been considering this relocation, in part, becauseit's one of the few negative remarks repeated by magazine reviews. Why the conspicuous tank location? seems to be the common thread. Putting aesthetics aside, it's difficult to see the sense of not keeping parts close to the framework just for the sake of keeping them out of harm's way.
I posted Freek a few weeks ago regarding how the relocation was working for him and asked if he'd had any problems since. He said it was working just fine. Here's a post Freek provided earlier on another thread regarding the question on how the brakes were performing after the relocation:

"Carl and myself are using this reservoir for a couple of months on smooth and rough roads. We have not seen any bubbles (as stated by BMW). A check at our dealer confirmed the proper working of the brakes."

[the1sen]

hey Herleman,

i pulled the trigger and had it done today.

so... if i die in a front-brake-related wreck, i have instructed my beautiful wife (pictured to the left[lol]) to write you guys here and let ya know.

what a huge difference it makes aesthetically.

thanks to de100kb and freek and everyone else who contributed to this totally necessary and completely awesome Mod

my wife noticed it right away... she NEVER notices things like that.

[Herleman]

I'm up to about 400 miles on it -- no problems, and you're right, its looks a helluvalot better.

My regards to you wife.

[the1sen]

Originally posted by Herleman

I'm up to about 400 miles on it -- no problems, and you're right, its looks a helluvalot better.

My regards to you wife.




i'll bounce her a note for ya! [lol2]

[AZ-J]

Don't want to sound nosy, but is this a mod better fitted to the ST or will it work/does it work on a S equally as well? To me it looks like I have less room for the reservoir to the bar than an ST looks.

Thanks, and if it fits on the S, I want it on mine, too.

[Herleman]

I would surely think so. The thing actually sits on the top of the brake lever and needs very little room.

I think that de100kb has his on an S model and apparently had no issues.

[Ataman]

Herleman, 2 plastic screws (32-72-7-675-118) you ordered for this installation - are they any different from the existing screws as seen on your 3rd photo? thx

[the1sen]

it works on the S too Tweety, for sure.

[de100kb]

Yes TweetyOne, it does work and look good on a S

http://tweakers.net/ext/f/9b0ed6c4ebad912235c6217196c162ee/full.jpg

[Herleman]

Ataman:

No, they are the same. I ordered a set because I assumed that I would destroy the head of at least one getting it out. That didn't happen so now I have an extra set.

[AZ-J]

Originally posted by de100kb

Yes TweetyOne, it does work and look good on a S

http://tweakers.net/ext/f/9b0ed6c4ebad912235c6217196c162ee/full.jpg



Thanks de100kb, I think I can go ahead with this, now.

Your bike is in that beautiful yellow/matte black color scheme, looks a whole lot like mine!!!

[Alec]

Thanks to de100's initial posting on this mod, I went straight out and fitted the K1200 reservoir - it certainly looks better and is less intrusive.
until he got the reply explaining the high reservoir was chosen because the marketing department had tested several setups on a German panel and the panel liked the high mounted version bestDunno about this, and I've had no probs whatsoever over several hundred miles since the mod; however, I did notice a distinct high-frequency vibe on the reservoir at high cruising speeds; the OE reservoir has a different cap (although identical externally) which incorporates a metal weight. I couldn't help thinking that this, along with the rubber mountings, is designed to absorb that vibration. By the way, don't (as I did) put the OE cap on the new reservoir in an effort to damp vibes; it looks OK but spews fluid everywhere once you get up to speed and the vibes intensify [eek]!
Whatever. Nice mod though, and I will be keeping it. Thanks again de100.

[Herrdirektor]

Have had this installed by Van Harten, the BMW dealer/specialist in NL too. It's absolutely lovely and have no issues.

:D

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s264/herrdirektor1969/CIMG0989.jpg

[de100kb]

All thanks should go to Van Harten BMW Amersfoort because that is where it originates from.

And I think the original mounting does allow even much more vibes so it's probably not an issue. Also no owner with the mod has reported anything negative so I think you can ease your mind. Have fun riding it!

[Curt]

Would it work to just change the fluid reservoir to a lower profile rectangular (black with a transparent top) container that would blend in better? I'm a little intimidated by the process of moving it as described, though if I have to I will. It's a great idea for sure.

[maverik88]

Curt, it's not as difficult as it may appear. Yes, the bracket screws can be a little tricky, but it is doable and doesn't take a rocket scientist to perform. Patience and a little time (half hour at the max) and a few inexpensive tools are all that's required. As far as the rectangular box, for just a little more effort, I'd simply relocate the reservoir or leave as is. Another alternative is to request the dealership perform the relocation. I'd estimate 15 minutes labor plus parts. My two cents. Good luck!

[EJ_92606]

Great information. I think a black reservoir and/or rectangular one as mentioned above would look even better...is one available, does anyone know?

[Alec]

Just a note re the torx screws which clamp the brake lever mounting to the handlebar: There's no need to obtain the shorter screws if you take a short one from the front of the clutch lever mounting clamp and use that in the rear of the brake lever clamp. You can then put a long screw in the front of each bracket - the extra length doesn't show.

[de100kb]

Guys and Gals I have some [err] information on this mod I have to share with you.

I received a message from my dealer which said BMW has publicised a warning for a K12R Sports owners there is a problem with the front brake when using the bike under extreme conditions like long streaks of autobahn or circuit use. The problem is: there are vibrations which force down bubbles from the fluid reservoir into the system. The result being the brakes can get 'swampy' and need to be deventilated to get the working properly again.

There is no need for panic, but the K12R owners are warned not to trust the front brake under these circumstances and to wait for a solution to be provided. So they probably are going to get a F800 type of brake fluid holder in the K12R Sport[V].

The dealer said he informed me of this because he knew I have the mod on my F800 which resembles the K12R Sport holder and he wanted me to be aware of a possible risk.

So I asked if he wanted me to change it back and he said that is not necessary but I should be aware of a risk under these specific circumstances.

We have been discussing this on the Dutch forum since I received the first mail from my dealer yesterday and one of the mods with the mod [^] said he once had to deventilate his front brake after riding Autobahn for a day. But he confirmed it's not a catastrophic failure of the brake but it builds up gradually, so if you have a good relationship with your bike it will tell you soon enough not to rely on the front brake too much. And he said he had changed his brake fluid before the trip but was quite sure he had deventilated it sufficiently after the replacement.



So:
1) please don't say, I told you so, even if you did, the verdict is still not in.
2) if you are considering this mod a.t.m. I would say: wait a bit to see how this develops
3) if you do have the mod already and you do a lot of high speed riding: BE AWARE of the risk and please report all findings here.
4) like my dealer advised I'm going to keep it on the bike until more is known (who knows what mod they will come up with for the K12R Sport) [8D]

[AZ-J]

Originally posted by de100kb

Guys and Gals I have some [err] information on this mod I have to share with you.

I received a message from my dealer which said BMW has publicised a warning for a K12R Sports owners there is a problem with the front brake when using the bike under extreme conditions like long streaks of autobahn or circuit use. The problem is: there are vibrations which force down bubbles from the fluid reservoir into the system. The result being the brakes can get 'swampy' and need to be deventilated to get the working properly again.

There is no need for panic, but the K12R owners are warned not to trust the front brake under these circumstances and to wait for a solution to be provided. So they probably are going to get a F800 type of brake fluid holder in the K12R Sport[V].

The dealer said he informed me of this because he knew I have the mod on my F800 which resembles the K12R Sport holder and he wanted me to be aware of a possible risk.

So I asked if he wanted me to change it back and he said that is not necessary but I should be aware of a risk under these specific circumstances.

We have been discussing this on the Dutch forum since I received the first mail from my dealer yesterday and one of the mods with the mod [^] said he once had to deventilate his front brake after riding Autobahn for a day. But he confirmed it's not a catastrophic failure of the brake but it builds up gradually, so if you have a good relationship with your bike it will tell you soon enough not to rely on the front brake too much. And he said he had changed his brake fluid before the trip but was quite sure he had deventilated it sufficiently after the replacement.



So:
1) please don't say, I told you so, even if you did, the verdict is still not in.
2) if you are considering this mod a.t.m. I would say: wait a bit to see how this develops
3) if you do have the mod already and you do a lot of high speed riding: BE AWARE of the risk and please report all findings here.
4) like my dealer advised I'm going to keep it on the bike until more is known (who knows what mod they will come up with for the K12R Sport) [8D]


Thank you, de100kb.
Your warning came in, in the nick of time for me. I just collected up all the parts and tools to do this, this very weekend, and now I'll skip it for a while. I can easily find something else to do, instead, since I often use my brakes on fast highway runs.

[Pat H]

Just a thought as I've not actually looked inside the BMW brake reservoir. but don't they have a rubber membrane to prevent the fluid absorbing water?
If they do (and I assume they must)
It should be possible to fill the chamber and bleed the air from under the membrane before fitting the lid.
With little or no air under the rubber no amount of vibration will make bubbles. As the fluid level drops the rubber opens out to fill the void. If this is too tricky to do with the current set up it would be easy to achieve by modifying the rubber so that the air can be bled off.

[SMB]

WARNING

As far as I can see the new reservoir is the same as the one on the K1200R Sport. There have been problems with bubbles so BMW have issued a recall on the K1200R sport. This was recall was published in the UK on 06/09/2007. See the UK site www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/default.asp

Below is an extract from the recall.

Concern :
REDUCTION OF FRONT BRAKE EFFICIENCY

Description :
Vibration on a long ride at a constantly high engine speed can, under certain circumstances causing foaming of the brake fluid in the reservoir of the front brakes. The possibility therefore of this foaming causing air to enter into the braking system cannot be excluded. Should air enter the system, the efficiency of the front brakes can diminish severely dependant upon the volume of air which has entered the system.

Remedial Action : Recalled machines will have the front brake system bled, and a damper weight installed in the front brake fluid reservoir.

Quite what this damper is I do not know, but if you do the conversion or have done it, perhaps it might be worth further investigation.
SMB

[AZ-J]

Any news yet of what this damper is, and where we F800 owners can get it?

[AZ-J]

Originally posted by SMB

WARNING

As far as I can see the new reservoir is the same as the one on the K1200R Sport. There have been problems with bubbles so BMW have issued a recall on the K1200R sport. This was recall was published in the UK on 06/09/2007. See the UK site www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/default.asp

Below is an extract from the recall.

Concern :
REDUCTION OF FRONT BRAKE EFFICIENCY

Description :
Vibration on a long ride at a constantly high engine speed can, under certain circumstances causing foaming of the brake fluid in the reservoir of the front brakes. The possibility therefore of this foaming causing air to enter into the braking system cannot be excluded. Should air enter the system, the efficiency of the front brakes can diminish severely dependant upon the volume of air which has entered the system.

Remedial Action : Recalled machines will have the front brake system bled, and a damper weight installed in the front brake fluid reservoir.

Quite what this damper is I do not know, but if you do the conversion or have done it, perhaps it might be worth further investigation.
SMB



Yahoo, I called Bob's BMW and ran this across today, since I came across my box of parts cleaning up the garage this weekend. Turns out the new BMW Fluid Reservoir 34-31-7-658-914 is NOT the one subject to recall, as that model not only includes a gray cap, but ends in part # 151, and NOT 914. I know what I'm going to do this weekend now, wish me luck, please!

[AZ-J]

Originally posted by de100kb

Yes TweetyOne, it does work and look good on a S

http://tweakers.net/ext/f/9b0ed6c4ebad912235c6217196c162ee/full.jpg


I did mine today! I'll post pics eventually. Those two little screws are a bitch to get to and see on an S, but after 1.5 hours all buttoned back up, brake works, all is happy. And I did say plenty of cuss words, but none Irish, since I don't know any of those.

My US model does not use hex screws, they are all T25, or T10 there, but on the rest of the bike there are some T20's and one or more T40's. Looks much more normal now, though, than with that dang bracket. I may have to get another bracket now and mount a radar detector. The GPS, complete with speedcam datatbase, is mounted on the left using a ZTechnic bracket that is quite adjustable, that screws into the clutch mount screws, replacing those with included longer one, too bad they are hex!