Advantages F800ST vs. F800GT - BMW F800 Riders Forum & Registry



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  1. #1
    GAJ's Avatar
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    ST has about 20-30 more miles in range, (smaller tank on the GT possibly less mpg), non ABS available, around 10lbs lighter, with a 2 inch shorter wheelbase for snappier handling one up, with slightly higher pegs and seat for more lean angle.

    So for us who never ride two up the ST does have its positive attributes vis a vis the new GT.

    I'm guessing the GT is better at two up riding and it sounds like the ABS has been improved.

    One thing I never thought the ST really needed is the Traction Control available on the GT...but maybe that massive 5hp increase in power requires it.

    The ESA option, according to owners of other BMWs with it, is not the "home run gotta have it" feature that it sounds like it should be.
    GAJ 

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  4. #2
    crick0234's Avatar
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    I've demo'ed the GT for a bit. there wasnt much of a big difference between the two to make me go "I want one!"

    when i demo'ed the R, i gave it a little serious thought ot maybe having a second bike or trading the ST in. it's a fun bike, and felt different enough. same when i tested the GS.

    But the ST to teh GT, there wasnt much that was there that i couldnt have done to the ST to turn it into a GT. Wind protection wise, i didnt notice a hueg difference. maybe it had a little bit better protection but it wasnt RT level of protection. ESA was meeeeeeh. the traction stability control mightve been nice but once again, with all options, nothing to scream home about. I missed the most from the ST was the sportier riding position.


    Overall the GT is a good bike, light, with good single rider power. If i didnt have the ST, then i would have gotten the GT.
    my gear: shoei multitec helmet; Dainese textile D-system D-dry jacket, pants, and gloves; JoeRocket boots
    my bike: champagne f800st; remus hexacone; bmw panniers, garmin nuvi 550; airhawk; 

  5. #3
    rouxstep's Avatar
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    So how do you like the flasher pod switch?

    Overall IMOHO I think the GT is a nice natural evolvement after 6 years of the ST's existence.
    ex owner of 1983 KZ1000R, hear it @ http://youtu.be/OSYIGHDeCZE 

  6. #4
    crick0234's Avatar
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    after driving the ST for so long, i really enjoyed em. when they changed em i was "awwwww" but can't say i hate it tho cuz before the ST i was on a honda and suzuki. It's a nice subtle evolution like the 05 gs's to teh 07's (or was it 08?) - i'm waiting for something big like when they went from an 1150 gs to 1200 gs.
    my gear: shoei multitec helmet; Dainese textile D-system D-dry jacket, pants, and gloves; JoeRocket boots
    my bike: champagne f800st; remus hexacone; bmw panniers, garmin nuvi 550; airhawk; 

  7. #5
    notacop is offline The original Schwartz Wald Troll
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    Traction control, It's for the inept! Abs, it's for the ham fisted who can't brake well with what they gots.

    The buggers that need all that stuff need Viagra to work their weennie!

    Perhaps the GT is for those ST owners whose ashtray has filled up?

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  9. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by GAJ View Post
    .....

    So for us who never ride two up the ST does have its positive attributes vis a vis the new GT....

    .
    +1 on what you said. IMHO the F800ST meets my needs much better than the 800GT. Shorter wheelbase, expandable sport panneirs, and most of the other stuff mentioned above
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." Stephen Hawking F800GT Dark Graphite Metallic  

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  11. #7
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    Whoa there big guy. Can I offer you a step ladder?... for that high horse you are clearly riding. The ST is no more. The GT seems a natural evolution and is more similar to the ST than most other bikes, NO?

    Quote Originally Posted by notacop View Post
    Traction control, It's for the inept! Abs, it's for the ham fisted who can't brake well with what they gots.

    The buggers that need all that stuff need Viagra to work their weennie!

    Perhaps the GT is for those ST owners whose ashtray has filled up?

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  13. #8
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    I have not ridden the GT so I do not have inside knowledge but I agree. Seems to be a nice evolution of the ST without going completely bananas with it. BMW seems to have a knack lately anyway of evolving their models nicely yet keeping the core bike there. The WC GS is another good example. I personally like that they extended the fairing on the GT to cover the entire bike. Nothing against the ST's or you that own them I never cared for that 3/4 fairing, looks unfinished. So looks are subjective but I like the design of the new GT. On a side I just installed the Pyramid fairing on my "S" and it looks the bomb, BMW should have designed the fairing that way in the first place...IMHO. Ride safe gents & ladies.....

  14. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rouxstep View Post
    So how do you like the flasher pod switch?

    Overall IMOHO I think the GT is a nice natural evolvement after 6 years of the ST's existence.
    After adding mirror extensions (fixed on the GT), a few windscreens (better on the GT) to statisfy seasonal needs and F800S engine spoiler ( integrated on the GT) to my 2009 F800ST, the need to change to the evolved F800GT is practically pointless!

    Stef-
    ex owner of 1983 KZ1000R, hear it @ http://youtu.be/OSYIGHDeCZE 

  15. #10
    Santa Rosa, CA, USA. GAJ is offline F800Riders.org Supporter
    GAJ's Avatar
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    I'm most perplexed by the drop in range.

    That does not seem to be a "natural evolution" for any ST or GT.

    A step backwards in my view...unless the heavier GT, with more power, somehow manages to get 10% better mileage than the F800ST...and even then, that would be a "breakeven" situation in terms of range.
    GAJ 

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  17. #11
    notacop is offline The original Schwartz Wald Troll
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    To me any touring bike with less than a 5 gallon capacity is just a device to ride from gas station to gas station.
    Then again one can tour on a Honda 125 Trail Bike if you accept the limitations of the design.
    I knew I could trust my R80/7 and R65LS to go 250 miles without going on reserve. That was a nice feature when looking at a map and picking a destination.

    Tumalo, you never heard of the Aunt or Uncle who bought a new car every time the ashtray filled up? You must be wearing your too literal undies today!

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  19. #12
    Santa Rosa, CA, USA. GAJ is offline F800Riders.org Supporter
    GAJ's Avatar
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    Ergonomic comparison at this site:

    Clearly the ST has more weight over the front wheel allowing for better front end feel and more spirited corner carving which is one of the attributes of the ST I like the most.

    http://cycle-ergo.com/
    Last edited by GAJ; 03-18-13 at 02:56 PM.
    GAJ 

  20. #13
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    Notacop is dead on. From what I've read, its essentially the same bike in a different frock with some 'must have' rider aids. I'm sure that if you're in the market for an ST, then now is the perfect time for some bargains! If you're swapping an ST for a GT, then maybe you earn too much

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  22. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GAJ View Post
    Clearly the ST has more weight over the front wheel
    //snip

    Wrong.
    Actually, the GT has the more weight over the front wheel, as the rider's offset from front wheel is same for both bikes, but the rear wheel on the GT is farther back due to its 40 mm longer wheelbase.

  23. #15
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    Simon Crafar would tell you to have your balls against the 'tank'. Using your weight to load the front wheel

  24. #16
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    R = Road
    S = Sports
    ST = Sports/Touring
    GT = Grand Touring

    We can argue as much as we like but BMW have decided that the F800 only needs the R and GT model. The GT is based on the newer R machine the S and ST are history.

    If you ride and S and miss it blame all those who did not buy it. Bottom Line it did not sell.

    If like me you ride an ST you have a choice, replace it with a GT, replace it with something else from BMW or another manufacturer (mine would be a Honda but in NZ they don't import the models I want to buy), keep your ST until it dies (One day it will be a classic!). You know it's better than a GT!
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  26. #17
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    I'm not planning sell my ST anytime soon. The machine continues to impress me and and I love it. But, the manufacturers have new bikes to sell. The GT must have evolved from somewhere and the design engineers had the ST as the backbone. I'll get a chance to put a leg over one this weekend at the dealer in Portland. "The ST is dead. Long live the GT!"

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  28. #18
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    Time will tell if the GT is any better than the ST, but I have no doubt that it is it's equal. For me, it fixed the problems I had with the ST - the luggage and a better fairing. But I wasn't coming from an ST, I was coming from an R1200RT and looking for a lighter weight bike that could tour. We only average 200-300 hundred miles a day, so it's range was not that important to me (although I would have liked more). The ABS and heated grips were a must, but I probably could have lived without the ASC and the ESA. They were available so I put them on the bike.

    All in all, it was just what I was looking for. Will I be happy with it? Only time will tell - talk to me again this fall. It goes down the Blue Ridge in June and then to Nova Scotia in August. Would I have traded a fully farkled ST for it - Not likely, but as Mark said "If you want a new bike it's the only game in town."
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  30. #19
    notacop is offline The original Schwartz Wald Troll
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    GT = Grand Touring
    Well, Dang, GT. I an't got no place within a thousand miles that qualifies as Grand. Entirely the wrong bike for the US. We have plenty of big empties and tight twisties. Not the kinda thing that qualifies as Grand. And that pissy little fuel cell will have you worrying about getting there.

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  32. #20
    Santa Rosa, CA, USA. GAJ is offline F800Riders.org Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by joylesshusband View Post
    //snip

    Wrong.
    Actually, the GT has the more weight over the front wheel, as the rider's offset from front wheel is same for both bikes, but the rear wheel on the GT is farther back due to its 40 mm longer wheelbase.
    Interesting.

    Found this on AMA Road Racing news...doesn't specifically address the weight distribution question:

    A shortened-wheelbase motorcycle will make turn transitions faster, allowing the rider to be very reactive to riding situations. The downside is that the motorcycle will lose some stability in the middle of a turn and will have a higher tendency to wheelie under hard acceleration. A longer-wheelbase motorcycle will not turn in as fast and will be less reactive to rider inputs, but be more stable mid-corner and not want to pick up the front wheel as easily under hard acceleration.

    http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/news/index.cfm?cid=51867
    GAJ 

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  34. #21
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    Mmmmmmm, is the GT better than the ST, many interesting points have been made here. To me it is a Marmite thing, either you love or not. Those that have made the change and love it that is fantastic, there is nothing like a new bike to make one feel good and nice and want to view it every five minutes or so, and who can blame them. Then there is the ST, with all that has been said before all, the fore and against, pro's and con's.

    Only time will tell if the GT is a true replacement to the ST, give it eighteen months or so then we will see if it has truly replaced the ST. I would love to replace the bike sometime, will it be the GT most probably I will stick with the ST even though the change of gears sometimes throw in a neutral and the engine roars, oops, try again, at least I am used to it and it's quirky way's.

    Those who have the GT, nice one, hope you enjoy
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  35. #22
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    I expect the GT's on-road dynamics won't be that much different to the ST, regardless of the changes in wheelbase and suspension. Pretty much all they've done (naturally) is move a little further away from sporting pretensions visually (less so dynamically), and add some features that long distance tourers will like. I took a quick squiz at the GT while at the World Superbikes Expo at Phillip Island. Noting my comments above, my immediate perception was 'nice bike, but it doesn't attract me like the S/ST did when I initially saw them years ago'. For the type of bike I want (including image), I prefer the slightly greater sporting pretensions of the ST, and the fact that it stands out from the crowd a little more than the GT is likely to. but all power to those who the bike suits. I love owning and riding my ST; I'm sure those who choose the GT will feel the same.
    Graphitane F800ST 04/2007. ABS, BMW panniers & topcase, trip computer, clear indicators, K&N filter, Accelerator Module, Ricor Intiminators, SW-Motech frame and R&G front axle sliders, coolant level check light, GS911 

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  37. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDDinNH View Post
    Time will tell if the GT is any better than the ST, but I have no doubt that it is it's equal. For me, it fixed the problems I had with the ST - the luggage and a better fairing. But I wasn't coming from an ST, I was coming from an R1200RT and looking for a lighter weight bike that could tour. We only average 200-300 hundred miles a day, so it's range was not that important to me (although I would have liked more). The ABS and heated grips were a must, but I probably could have lived without the ASC and the ESA. They were available so I put them on the bike.

    All in all, it was just what I was looking for. Will I be happy with it? Only time will tell - talk to me again this fall. It goes down the Blue Ridge in June and then to Nova Scotia in August. Would I have traded a fully farkled ST for it - Not likely, but as Mark said "If you want a new bike it's the only game in town."
    Fiance and I have ridden two-up a few times on my ST. The rear handling was affected more than two-up riding with my Dad on our Guzzi (which has aftermarket rear shocks). We're 300 pounds of combined flesh and I'm not sure I'd want to go much more on my ST.

    What I am really jonesing for is that Valencia orange (my first BMW was Orlando orange...). After years of fogie colors BMW finally painted the F800 with something sharp.

    I would find it hard to compare the two. What year did BMW swap out the mushy Showa forks for the Marzocchi ones after Showa closed their European factory?
    '07 F800ST 

  38. #24

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    Rode the new GT on. Saterday and Ionly liked the new exhaust sound. I did not like the single flicker and the new screen was not very effective The engine was also running hotter,mayby something to do with new fairing. Performace felt slightly better,but not major. I am happy with my ST and prefer the slightly more sportier riding position. In a nutshell BMW need to do better,maybe F900ST? They are trying to cater for a very small market segment,which has wide choice for the consumer l know two guys who have bought GT!s, so I will seehow they enjoy the new model

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    I had an 09 ST and loved it. Traded it for a R1200RT because I "needed" bigger and better. Missed the ST a bunch, and now have a GT on order. If I still had my orginal ST, I WOULD NOT trade for a GT. Not enough difference, in my opinion. In my opinion also, if we didn't know the swing arm was 2 inches longer, very few riders (myself included) would notice any difference in the ride and handling. If you have an ST and it still speaks to you, keep if. If you want a new ride, consider the GT. Two different apples from the same tree.
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  41. #26
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    WildWilly, I have meant to mention before now, your avatar pic looks familiar
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    It's an avatar that says "Embrace Me"
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  44. #28
    Flook's Avatar
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    Looks a lot like the one I posted when I was invited to check a GT over, if you did nick it, I cant blame you, when we post photo's we leave ourselves open for the odd few to be poached, such is life. Anyway, have you been out on your GT?
    Please note, the thoughts and opinions of Flook does not necessarily reflect the thoughts and opinions of other site users/posts
     

  45. #29
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    "To nick, or not to nick? That is the question" My avatar photo was taken, by me, in the showroom of Gina's BMW Motorcycles. (Also posted in my impressions of the GT) Is the poachee actually a poachor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flook View Post
    Looks a lot like the one I posted when I was invited to check a GT over, if you did nick it, I cant blame you, when we post photo's we leave ourselves open for the odd few to be poached, such is life. Anyway, have you been out on your GT?
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  46. #30
    WildWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flook View Post
    Anyway, have you been out on your GT?
    No. It's still on your side of the pond. Would you pop over there and tell them to build mine post haste
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  47. #31
    rouxstep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildWilly View Post
    I had an 09 ST and loved it. Traded it for a R1200RT because I "needed" bigger and better. Missed the ST a bunch, and now have a GT on order. If I still had my orginal ST, I WOULD NOT trade for a GT. Not enough difference, in my opinion. In my opinion also, if we didn't know the swing arm was 2 inches longer, very few riders (myself included) would notice any difference in the ride and handling. If you have an ST and it still speaks to you, keep if. If you want a new ride, consider the GT. Two different apples from the same tree.
    I have the 2009 ST and I share you're opinion too, not enough evolution to switch bike and shed the extra $$$$s,

    Anoying issue, side cases:
    At a fix 25 liter size they are better looking than the expanded to 25 liter ST side cases.
    It is deceiving they did not seize the opportunity to increase size of luggage. Why not lower the muffler and place bigger side cases?
    Other annoying issue is helmet capacity, both ST side cases accepts helmets, not the GT ones.
    After market Givi V35 side cases at 34 liters each are still the norm for long range touring with F800s.

    The GT


    The ST


    Givi V35
    ex owner of 1983 KZ1000R, hear it @ http://youtu.be/OSYIGHDeCZE 

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  49. #32
    Flook's Avatar
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    The Givi Maxxi, which I have carries two helmets, if that is any help.
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  50. #33
    Flook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildWilly View Post
    "To nick, or not to nick? That is the question" My avatar photo was taken, by me, in the showroom of Gina's BMW Motorcycles. (Also posted in my impressions of the GT) Is the poachee actually a poachor?
    This was my image I posted, can you spot the difference, I expect young Trevor would, he is from down under, they see things upside-down you know
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  51. #34
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    Flook: I think I've spotted the difference. The brace in your pic is designed to steady the fork tubes on the wrong side of the road.
    2013 Valencia Orange F800GT - GONE
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  52. #35
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    Note that I haven't picked up my ST yet (a few more weeks!) but here's my uninformed take:

    Pro
    - 5 bhp
    - bigger screen
    - fork brace

    Con
    - no fork gaiters
    - presumably same front spring rate
    - no headlight protection
    - short front fender

    Pete

    p.s. anybody who disses ABS hasn't ridden hard on a wet road.

  53. #36
    Flook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildWilly View Post
    Flook: I think I've spotted the difference. The brace in your pic is designed to steady the fork tubes on the wrong side of the road.
    WRONG
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  54. #37
    Flook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogboy View Post
    Note that I haven't picked up my ST yet (a few more weeks!) but here's my uninformed take:

    Pro
    - 5 bhp
    - bigger screen
    - fork brace

    Con
    - no fork gaiters Non on ST
    - presumably same front spring rate
    - no headlight protection Same on ST
    - short front fender same on ST

    Pete

    p.s. anybody who disses ABS hasn't ridden hard on a wet road.
    Reply included in the quote, easier that way
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  55. #38
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    Sorry, obviously I am bugging people on this forum with my ineptitude.

    Let me rephrase my post.

    1. The ST has no fork gaiters - the GT should have added gaiters.

    2. The ST has no headlight protection - the GT should have added headlight protection.

    3. The ST has a too-short front fender - the GT should have a longer fender.

    Any other horrors I've inflicted?

  56. #39
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    I can only speak for myself, and because I live in a dry area of the country, I see no need for the three above mentioned features. I try to avoid sand, mud and kicked up gravel whenever possible. But, your additions should be relatively inexpensive aftermarket purchases.

  57. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogboy View Post
    Any other horrors I've inflicted?
    Yes. You are single handedly responsible for global warming.
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  59. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildWilly View Post
    Yes. You are single handedly responsible for global warming.
    Willy you are a naughty naughty boy, Hogboy is not responsible for all global warming, only the last bit
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    I can only speak for myself, and because I live in a dry area of the country, I see no need for the three above mentioned features. I try to avoid sand, mud and kicked up gravel whenever possible. But, your additions should be relatively inexpensive aftermarket purchases.
    Hey Mark, I'm cheap and look at these items as low-cost insurance.

    I install these items on every bike I buy and haven't replace fork seals, headlights, oil coolers or other vulnerable bits in over 300,000 km.

    I find most projectiles come from oncoming cars and trucks rather than the road surface itself. If you've ever heard that loud "ping' on your helmet shield after following an 18-wheeler you know what your fork tube experiences from time to time.

    I do admit to epoxying back on my Concours mirror after a losing duel with a Turkey Vulture but that's for another day.

    Peter

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  62. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flook View Post
    Willy you are a naughty naughty boy, Hogboy is not responsible for all global warming, only the last bit
    I don't like the word naughty. I prefer to be called "deviant".
    2013 Valencia Orange F800GT - GONE
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    Not a 2nd childhood, still in the 1st 

  63. #44
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    '11ST 16L nominal tank, 410.2km, refill 16.22L, 58km with the light on. I 'hope' the GT can beat that. 2,200km on a trip last weekend, fuel average 3.96L/100km, at 110-120km/h. And a 25ish girl was overheard, wow nice bike.

    Why would I want to replace it.....
    Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some 

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  65. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildWilly View Post
    I don't like the word naughty. I prefer to be called "deviant".
    In that case you are a deviant naughty boy, deviantly
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  66. #46
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    Hey Richard, go anywhere interesting on your 2,200km ride?
    '08 Silver F800ST. Hot grips, OBC, ABS, centre stand, tinted screen, wider mirrors, throttle lock, MFW Vario foot pegs + clutch lever extender, hand made side stand pad enlarger, OEM sports cases. Still to go; front forks, seat alteration, bright lights ... 

  67. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flook View Post
    In that case you are a deviant naughty boy, deviantly
    As Frank Sinatra so eloquently sang, "I gotta be me"
    2013 Valencia Orange F800GT - GONE
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    Not a 2nd childhood, still in the 1st 

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  69. #48
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    Yes I did Donnie, a wacky little place called The Channon......
    Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some 

  70. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildWilly View Post
    As Frank Sinatra so eloquently sang, "I gotta be me"
    If you are you, then you cannot be anyone else, now that is deviant
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  71. #50

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    I, for one, will be turning my nose up in contempt whenever I motor by a f800gt....


    d.

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