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  1. #1
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    On the 9th of last month I received a call that my brother was in a fatal accident on his 2015 F700GS in Costa Rica. I went down to recover his body and also visited the crash site. He was passing a slow moving car on the panamerican highway and appears to have initiated a panic brake with oncoming traffic. He laid down a 50m single straight skid with a short curve to the right at the last 2m. I'm trying to understand. I was with him when he bought the bike, and was told that his bike had both traction control and ABS which would prevent these types of conditions. The road was dry, flat, and in good condition. How did the bike skid? He came off the bike and was run over. Died instantly. I know that nothing can bring my younger brother back but I am trying to understand the system. The bike was undamaged for the most part (hard side case scratched and left mirror gone). If there is something wrong with the bike I want to know and I want other to know. I confirmed that he keep the bike properly maintained by a local BMW dealer in San Jose. Are there other cases of these types of issues with this bike? Any helpful information or direction very much appreciated.

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    My condolences on your loss.

    I believe that bike can switch off ABS after a press and hold but not while moving. After shutdown the ABS comes back on and has to be turned off again. I believe ABS was standard for that year.

    Skid marks would indicate ABS was off. I think trail to road to trail riding might have been off for convenience. I can only speculate, not implying any fault, but this tragedy remains regardless.

    F_0B16_RM_0816_07.pdf

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    I agree but he was in the last 30 minutes of a 4 hour business trip from San Jose so I doubt that the ABS was turned off. I'm headed back down there in a few weeks. Anyone know how to retrieve the data from the "black" box assuming that it has a black box??? Can I remove it and have it brought back to the US for analysis? Or, download it?

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    Are there any known issues with ABS failures on the 2015 models?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doesntmakesense View Post
    I agree but he was in the last 30 minutes of a 4 hour business trip from San Jose so I doubt that the ABS was turned off. I'm headed back down there in a few weeks. Anyone know how to retrieve the data from the "black" box assuming that it has a black box??? Can I remove it and have it brought back to the US for analysis? Or, download it?

    My Uncle recently died in a horrific crash in his Corvette. He was under the influence of alcohol. He assumed a deadly risk and paid the ultimate price. He died immediately on impact striking a tree. His passenger survived. It didn't make any sense. It doesn't have to make sense. We have to accept it, learn from it and remember them for who they were and carry the memory of them.

    If the skid marks were not continuous, but like dashes the ABS was on. ABS braking isn't going to prevent a collision. He could have very well engaged ABS. You can still have a collision with ABS. Regardless of on or off traction control isn't going to prevent a collision under any circumstance. I've never see any claim ABS or ASC doing so. They reduce risk not take it completely away.

    You have to press and hold the ABS switch to turn it off at a full stop, it can't be turned off in motion. If the ABS fails, a fault light is displayed which the owner's manual says ...

    "ABS warning light flashes.
    Possible cause:
    The ABS control unit has detected a fault.
    You can continue to ride. Bear in mind that the ABS function is not available. Bear in mind the more detailed information on certain situations that can lead to ABS fault messages Have the fault rectified as quickly as possible by a specialist workshop, preferably an authorised BMW Motorrad dealer."


    I had a lamp fault and this clearly got my attention. I didn't know whether my brake light or tail light was out. The indicators stay on the whole time under a fault. Not knowing which lamp was out I pulled over and checked it. From there I knew my brake light was out and used hand signals to indicate my turns and stops.

    I can understand you seem to be leaning toward finding fault with the ABS. ABS isn't and end all solution to braking. Even ABS pro that later bikes have that allow safer breaking in a turn are not foolproof, but tools. You still shouldn't brake in a turn, but if you do it may assist. I'm not defending BMW but their liability doesn't exist if the rider doesn't acknowledge a fault, turns it off or ignores a warning.

    When any company produces a manual they include warnings and risk. If the operator fails to read or adhere the the operating manual the Manufacture has no liability. If he turned off the ABS or ignored a fault how is the manufacturer responsible? Was his bike serviced? Were the brakes bleed yearly? Applying brakes before impact in a fatal situation isn't going to make the situation any better slowing down from 80 to 60 mph. Everytime I get on my bike I assume risk. Everytime I parachuted I assumed risk. You can be the most proficient rider in the entire world and ride a bike with every technical innovation available and a 16 year old girl on a cell phone can kill you.

    I sense you're looking for info for litigation. This isn't really the place to do this and I'm not an expert. I don't mean to sound harsh, just trying to inform you the best way I can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaxon View Post
    ...It doesn't have to make sense. We have to accept it, learn from it and remember them for who they were and carry the memory of them...
    Like the others, I feel for you in your loss. It's never easy losing someone you love.

    I don't know what happened. I wasn't there. The one thing that struck me, was there was a 50 meter skid mark. I sense your brother was moving pretty fast.

    I pray you and your family will find peace in this tragedy.

    Chris

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    Collesano, Italy guidoveloce is offline Volunteer Moderator - Global
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    Don, I'm very sorry to hear that bad news.
    as I know there is not any report of ABS failure. but sometimes things like that could happen, although it's extremely rare.
    "putenza du gibbiuni!" dissi u sceccu quannu vitti u mari... ("what a big pool!" said the donkey when has seen the sea...) 

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    I'm very sorry for your loss.
    As remarked by others, ABS is not a 'cure for all issues'. There are circumstances thinkable where the bike could have a long skid, with ABS engaged.
    Fault codes can be retrieved by a BMW dealer. I'm not sure what is needed for that, the full bike? Perhaps there is a BMW dealership in Costa Rica which can help?

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  13. #10
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    Guys, there is nothing that I can do to bring my brother back. I understand that. What I am trying to determine is, was there a problem with the bike. I was there when he bought the bike. The sales men specifically explained that the bike had ABS and traction control so that in the event of a panic braking situation the bike remained upright and did not skid. My brother's crash involved a long skid and he went over the bars and he had the collision not the bike. If something went wrong with the bike then people need to be aware of it.

    I've ridden bikes most of my life. I am aware of the risk.

    Yes the bike was properly serviced by a BMW dealership. Yes the skid was continuous (not chattered)

    Is there a "black" box?

  14. #11
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    There is no black box. Only the ECU. A dealer can recover fault codes.

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    Does the ECU capture and keep any history?

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    Yes, it does, but not all events as far as I know. Again: check with a BMW dealer.

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  17. #14
    Collesano, Italy guidoveloce is offline Volunteer Moderator - Global
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    don, even if ABS and TC can prevent most of the skid, it doesn't do it at all. depends on many reasons as the condition of the road, the position of the bike itself, the skill in using brakes with an ABS device, the angle of the inclination of the bike (neither the new kind of devices, the ones called cornering ABS, can do miracles) and so on. but you, as a biker, know all this.
    things went in that way, it's terrible, probably it's more terrible to accept that there is not a reason for that. maybe it is so. I can only immagine your feelings and I can say that we all are close to you.
    I apologize for my fatalist attitude, but more often than we think things happen without any reason.
    "putenza du gibbiuni!" dissi u sceccu quannu vitti u mari... ("what a big pool!" said the donkey when has seen the sea...) 

  18. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doesntmakesense View Post
    Does the ECU capture and keep any history?
    A very tragic circumstance, Don, and I understand your desire for answers.

    From my perspective, a 50m skid with a bike that has operational ABS would seem highly unusual, but I can't think of anything other than an ABS malfunction that would allow such a thing if the ABS were in fact operational at the time; that is, panic braking locked up the rear wheel. ABS will release a locked brake in a pulsing motion, and traction control simply reduces power to a rear wheel that is spinning through engine power (which would not have been the case here) - very basic actions that cannot lock the wheel of their own accord.

    The ECU will store fault codes and when they occur (date/time and mileage) as well as whether currently present. A dealer can perform such a scan, as can someone with a GS911 device. Unfortunately, though, no other operating parameters are stored - i.e. as indicated above, the ECU doesn't perform a black-box function as some cars have. I've heard of no ABS malfunctions, however, in my time with the F800 series (since 2008).
    R1200R-LC ​Exclusive in Thunder Grey with Touring Pack. Formerly Graphitane F800ST 04/2007. ABS, BMW panniers & topcase, trip computer, clear indicators, Ricor Intiminators, SW-Motech frame and R&G front axle sliders, coolant level check light, GS911 

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