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Rear wheel bearings failure

25K views 79 replies 33 participants last post by  vrakas 
#1 ·
REAR AXIL BEARINGS ARE FAILING.I have seen some threads on the f800s/st side but very little information on the gs side.
I have read a lot about the rear bearing issue on the ADVrider site and I'm concerned the information is not getting out. VERY VERY important to check those rear bearings. I change my own tires so I was doing it anyway. If someone else is changing your tires please have them CHECK the bearings for any sign af failure. Lost hubs maybe even lost lives are at stake here.
btw, at 5100 miles my rear bearing on the rotor side his rough. Taking the bike to the dealer, Woodys wheel shop in Denver recommended on the ADVrider site to get the dealers involved. maybe a design problem with the rear axil.
If anyone else has seen problems let us know. I post what happens at the dealer.ride safe <>< Craigster
 
#30 ·
My daughter's 1981 R65LS still has the original wheel bearings, which have never even been serviced or greased. The still seem to work just like new. In those days, BMW was using some very high quality materials. Her tool kit has lived under the seat for those 29 years, which included many years in Seattle, and the tools do not have a bit of rust on them. They still work fine for servicing the bike in accordance with the excellent owner's manual that gives detailed instructions to the owner on how each required service procedure is performed.
 
#32 ·
Richard230, the BMW R65LS was my first BMW back in the 80's that I bought to replace my Honda CBX [:)] Back in those days, BMW had some quality build motorcycle even with the quirks. The BMW R65LS wasn't the fastest nor smoothest bike, but I had quite a few trips from L.A. to Salt Lake City, UT, Phoenix, AZ, Las Vegas, NV. It lasted through severe rain storms and one hail storm. My fork seals kept popping out as it was a manufactured defect by BMW, tail lights would go out, had to repair a petcock leak while on the road as it was leaking when I got to Grand Canyon.

Thank you for asking romanr, no they aren't giving me a loaner bike. I have 2 other motorcycles so it is okay. I do want to document that there is indeed another rear bearing failures. When talking to the service, they thought it was an exception to all BMWs. After reading this post and some other posts on this forum. At least in the future if other F800cc riders have similar rear bearing problems then at least it is documented on this forum.

If I didn't own 2 other bikes to ride, it would be a problem. I see this board as basically being able to document that other riders are experiencing similar problems and BMW can improve with better quality control.

The BMW F650 is a vast improvement over the the BMW R650 in performance, gear shifting, acceleration, high speed cruising. The BMW R1200 is a vast improvement over prior BMW Rseries.. this includes the R1150. The BMW R1200 gear shifting is much smoother, acceleration and comfort cruising is vastly improved. So BMW does listen to their customers and have improved the overall quality in yesteryears. Adding the dual spark, counter-balance , greatly improved gearbox to the R1200 certainly improved overall quality from the past.

If BMW keeps an "open eye" to other problems that customers are having and resolves them, then BMW won't go the way of what Honda is experiencing at this time.
 
#33 ·
Stupid question: All the bikes I,ve owned I never had a bearing issue . What is the first sign of a bearing problem? I presume if I spin the wheel while on center stand I should hear a defec bearing , and should I remove calipers for me to hear if bearings are going? Or, is visual check better? Thanks .
 
#34 ·
Checking your bearings

Stupid question: All the bikes I,ve owned I never had a bearing issue . What is the first sign of a bearing problem? I presume if I spin the wheel while on center stand I should hear a defec bearing , and should I remove calipers for me to hear if bearings are going? Or, is visual check better? Thanks .
Best way to check your bearings is to remove the rear wheel. Remove the wheel spacer so that you can touch the inner race of the bearing your are going to check. Stick your first and middle finger into the axle bore hole in the bearing and try to turn the inner race. If it feels smooth and does not have any problem turning, then your bearing is ok. If it feels rough or notchie, then you may need to replace your bearing.

Good Luck

LaPorte
 
#37 · (Edited)
i assume you mean putting them in the hub??,,if so ,same as the manual sez,,heat hub ,,freeze bearing ,,ploink it drops in..simple as that,,if ya need some assitance use a socket or drift the same diameter as the outer race to seat it,,DO NOT bang on the inner race!!!

Psssst,this technique only works well if you have the correct bore size!!! ,,hence many of the posts on ADVrider complained it went in alittle ,,,then i had to beat it in the rest of the way,,,Voila a sure indicator that ya have an undersized bore!!!

if ya meant obtaining BMW's special bearing ,,i believe it is a C-5 [a looser tolerance bearing than C-3,,i believe BMWs rational was that when it crushes it'll hav e little more room than the C-3] instead of the standard C-3 that everyone and they themselves had in there before,,the new PN is

9 07119903603 GROOVED BALL BEARING - 20X47X14 0.23 1 $16.71 x2ea for hub

FYI the standard C-3 6204 2RS bearing measures 20x47x14 and is still listed as the bearing in the sprocket carrier item#25 in the microfiche as:
25 07119981221 GROOVED BALL BEARING - 6204-2RS 0.22 1 $16.71 x1ea for spkt carrier

while i'm at it here's the link to MaxBmw's on line microfiche,,it'll save ya alot of trouble in the future...
http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/DiagramsMain.aspx?vid=51598&rnd=03192010

last but not least,,i found the invoice for Ddrags hub swap,,,the only known incident where BMW sent a new hub and replacement parts for having his hub replaceds...we were going to do it and upgrade his wheel at the same time but they got alocal wheelsmith to do it,,,

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11439478&postcount=782

woody

woody
 
#38 ·
Thanks Mate of course “in the hub”. I have installed my new bearings already I was just curious how you guys do it.
When I installed my bearings I made up a special little precision seating tool similar to the one in the Manual. Now the important part (I think).
The manual says to install the left hand side first.
Reason for it is that this bearing will go in the hub all the way. (Use the installation Tool)!
The circlip will not be installed at this time. (Circlip and seals go in last).
Now using the installation tool again (if you want to get it right): Flat” Pull in disc “goes in the just installed left hand side and will keep inner and outer race in line (no side loading).
A Spindle goes right through the hub, the very important spacer tube in between the left hand bearing and the right hand bearing, which sits on a locating disc.
The locating disc insures that the bearings are parallel to each other at all times and prevents any side loading. Now you just wind the two together until seated. Seated means the inside races just touching the spacer tube.
Install Circlip and seals use Staburags NBU 30 PTM to lubricate and you are done.
Since the hub is machined to allow clearance for spacer distance in between bearings, tapping the bearing in all the way on the outer race would certainly side load both bearings.
To me there is no other way than to use the right tool for the job!
Heating the seat to specs is also very important. I was never a friend of freezing bearings.
Every bearing we installed using the freezing method (Industrial applications, big bearings and sometimes old machinery) had to be cleaned and re packed after installation.
As in heating the hub to C 100deg. And dropping in a sealed frozen bearing, I honestly would not recommend this practice.
As for the 6204 size same size bearing different brand. I personally prefer SKF. There is however a 6204 from SKF with a non friction seal (no good I think because there is a good possibility of moisture entering the bearing).
Interesting too is the ADVrider input on “banging” the bearing in! No banging or hammering on a bearing ever!! Install by means of pressing on outer and inner race at the same time (correct tooling). I went through a few posts on ADVrider about failed bearings as well especially the ones with the tight bores. This would be even longer post writing about bore sizes in detail but my gut feeling would be NOT to do it. Why? The hub has been engineered to certain specs. Say for instance temperature..Two different materials (hub and bearing) that means two different rates of expanding and shrinking. In special applications the seats are a little smaller to allow for a different expansion rate. I sure hope that the guys are measuring hub bores at an ambient temperature of exactly C19deg. Too! Just imagine opening out your hub bores, easily done but what happens if something goes wrong and somebody gets hurt? BMW will have their sizes and could easily prove that somebody has tempered with the original hub! Who is going to pay for injury or damage?
Nobody. With the exception of somebody has done it for you. You could go after that somebody good luck there too!
I can only say for myself I have changed the bearings on my second set of wheels 6000Miles
Left hand bearing on the rear a little rough but after cutting it in half there was no damage or sign of it at all. The newly installed bearings also feel OK after cooling down.
But that is only my opinion Safe riding!
 
#39 · (Edited)
different strokes for different folks johan,,,

i, like you have made special pullers for bearing installation,,,we have trick assy tools to press bearings in ,etc etc,,,with properly speced bearing bores,,,the heat n chill method is an elegant super easy way to install bearings if you are prepared and quick....FYI,,,i myself have not read an F800Gs repair manual,,,,it iwas my fellow inmates who posted that technique and saying they were following the instructions in there manuals ,,perhaps they have different manuals down under...i myself didn't have any strange re-action to this tried and true technique,,,especially since it's been used by BMW for the last 50-60years or more.

your claim about having to redo all the frozen bearings simply doesn't ring a bell with me,,,i've done at least 1,000+ bearings like this with not a single comeback,,Hmmmmnnn and my motorcycles have gone thu thousands of heat/freeze cycles where i live,in colorado,,yes we ride em in below 0degree C/F weather!!!!

for some reason this site doesn't allow the use of the tool bar,,i was going to run through your reply and highlight some of your staements for rebuttal/clarifying purposes,,,instead i'll put a few **** in your text

thanks mate of course "in the hub". I have installed my new bearings already i was just curious how you guys do it.
When i installed my bearings i made up a special little precision seating tool similar to the one in the manual. Now the important part (i think).
The manual says to install the left hand side first.
Reason for it is that this bearing will go in the hub all the way. (use the installation tool)!
The circlip will not be installed at this time. (circlip and seals go in last).
Now using the installation tool again (if you want to get it right): Flat" pull in disc "goes in the just installed left hand side and will keep inner and outer race in line (no side loading).
A spindle goes right through the hub, the very important spacer tube in between the left hand bearing and the right hand bearing, which sits on a locating disc.
The locating disc insures that the bearings are parallel to each other at all times and prevents any side loading. Now you just wind the two together until seated. Seated means the inside races just touching the spacer tube.

****you said the important words ''just touching the inner tube''',,the first bearing ie the disc side bearing is the locator bearing on these versions of hub,,,the circlip wants to be installed with the sharp edges out,,this bearing keeps the hub perfectly aligned so your disc brake stays perfectly aligned in your caliper,,the other bearing essentially should float with zero pre-load***

Install circlip and seals use staburags nbu 30 ptm to lubricate and you are done.
Since the hub is machined to allow clearance for spacer distance in between bearings, tapping the bearing in all the way on the outer race would certainly side load both bearings.
To me there is no other way than to use the right tool for the job!

****when you drop the bearings in they will seat by thenslves,,,,,disc side first ,,ploink drop in,,i install the circlip at this time to keep it in place,,it only takes a second or two for the hub to chill n grip the bearing,,,flip install the spacer and drop in the second one,,,voila basically done,,,***

Heating the seat to specs is also very important. I was never a friend of freezing bearings.
Every bearing we installed using the freezing method (industrial applications, big bearings and sometimes old machinery) had to be cleaned and re packed after installation.
As in heating the hub to c 100deg. And dropping in a sealed frozen bearing, i honestly would not recommend this practice.

*** well i addressed that earlier***

As for the 6204 size same size bearing different brand. I personally prefer skf. There is however a 6204 from skf with a non friction seal (no good i think because there is a good possibility of moisture entering the bearing).

***we install SKFs,,,they too have failed in the bad hubs,,,,FYI ,,i can't remember having any bearings fail that were set up correctly regardless of brand,,,for those needing SKFs we have no problem soucing /using them,,,for the dual-sport crowd that do lot's of watercrossings we automatically re-pack them with boat trailer grease****

Interesting too is the advrider input on "banging" the bearing in! No banging or hammering on a bearing ever!!

**** see above post !!! no ''banging on inner INNER races during installation would be more sensible***

Install by means of pressing on outer and inner race at the same time (correct tooling). I went through a few posts on advrider about failed bearings as well especially the ones with the tight bores. This would be even longer post writing about bore sizes in detail but my gut feeling would be not to do it.

**** why not to do what???,,just curious,,i lost your drift somewhere....***

Why? The hub has been engineered to certain specs. Say for instance temperature..two different materials (hub and bearing) that means two different rates of expanding and shrinking. In special applications the seats are a little smaller to allow for a different expansion rate. I sure hope that the guys are measuring hub bores at an ambient temperature of exactly c19deg. Too! Just imagine opening out your hub bores, easily done but what happens if something goes wrong and somebody gets hurt? Bmw will have their sizes and could easily prove that somebody has tempered with the original hub! Who is going to pay for injury or damage?
Nobody. With the exception of somebody has done it for you. You could go after that somebody good luck there too!
I can only say for myself i have changed the bearings on my second set of wheels 6000miles
left hand bearing on the rear a little rough but after cutting it in half there was no damage or sign of it at all. The newly installed bearings also feel ok after cooling down.
But that is only my opinion safe riding!
****FYI,,all the hubs were measured and re-machined/honed at room temperature to standardized crush tolerances,,,and all the talk here is of a certain batch of F800GS hubs that although machined by someone ,,,they were not machined for bearing tolerances needed in aluminum hubs.,,why do we need different crush figures for aluminum vs steel BWOE,,because when aluminum expands more rapidly the id of the bore also grows,,,hence the crush so that when your aluminum hub grows ya won't have a loose bearing floating around in there...not measuring your bearing bore leaveyou in the land of ASSuming..remember the old ASSuME cliche??

FYI,,that crunchy feeling in your bearing is a sure fire indicator that in this scenario that ya have one of ''them hubs'',,,the fact that the bearing feels a lil smoother after ya took out stands to reason,,or that it appeared ok after ya cut it in half just means you caught it at an early stage ,,i bet that under a microscope you'd be seeing something else....

and here's the invoice for Ddrags replaced hub,,note BMW's ''mis-machined hub'' header,,,the special new bearings,,before they were all the same part number as the standard 2RS[2 rubber seals] still used in the sprocket carrier
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11439478&postcount=782

i just always have my grammer school nuns mantra running in the back of my head...""Good,,better,, best....never let it rest!!!...til the good is better and the better is the best!!!...

of course all of this banter is prefaced by IMHO

woody
 
#40 ·
I have been watching this subject over on advrider and now here. In one regard, it is great info because I now make it a habit to periodically check my rear wheel bearings. In another regard, people taking this issue into their own hands and bypassing the dealer is dangerous and fruitless in my opinion.

Firstly, the bikes are under warranty. Why are guys hacking up their wheel hubs and putting in aftermarket bearings in the back of their garages?

Secondly, like Johann mentioned, if something goes wrong, the liability has been squarely transferred from BMW to yourself. Not to mention, it may essentially be covering up a problem that will never be addressed unless people with bad bearings demand replacement from BMW. An example of this would be the chain recall.

As a result of this issue being discussed, I now personally have the tech at my dealership pull the rear wheel each time it is in for service to check the bearings. This gets noted on the work order which creates a very clear paper trail and provides history on my bike. I have been lucky, no bearing issues and this is signed off by a factory trained, qualified and licensed technician. Very cheap insurance.

When the time comes to sell my bike and that day will eventually arrive, the new owner will get that history and I will sleep well at night knowing that there isn't a bike on the road with a set of bearings in the drive wheel that I installed with a torch and a rubber mallet in the back of my garage.

I can just imagine the transcripts in a court of law should the wheel seize just after you sold the bike to someone and they were injured or killed........" So Mr.Doe, if I understand this correctly, rather than have a factory qualified and trained technician diagnose a known issue, you decided to do it yourself. What are your qualifications in this matter.....?"

No Thanks.
 
#43 ·
That is really simple to answer....... Bmw is denying that the hub squires the bearing too much...leading to premature failure.... They just replaces the bearing........
If Bmw won`t fix it......Someone has to make this a reliable machine.......I think that if you study the cases of bad rear bearing.... You need to ask your self if you`d take the 8GS on a 2000 mile trip with that..... I would`nt. It`s just like in the beginning with the Charcoal canister....denial....then came the recall....... Chain.....denial........then came the recall.
Good luck with your Bmw bearings.....[thumb][thumb]

Erling
 
#41 ·
Hey Peace Brother [;)] I was saying.......But that is only my opinion Safe riding!
I love the saying "Good, better, best....never let it rest!!!...til the good is better and the better is best" and so does Jack Canfield! [thumb]
I also find somebody who's done modifications to bikes that belong to somebody else and guarantee the work admirable![thumb]
All I am trying to convey is that I am legally licensed to do work on motorcycles and cars and I am not out to prove somebody else wrong! I am also not saying that there is a perfect or faulty hub in the production line all I am saying is that you don't machine an OEM hub![bow] If you think the hub is no good, cover it under Warranty! If you are out of Warranty and you are not happy with the whole thing get aftermarket hubs they look great and got some warranty on their own!
If none of the above applies get your hub, measure it again and present the wrong or incorrect measurements and hub to BMW but make sure the measurements are done at C 19 deg.
The only thing you can do if you are qualified is change the bearings as per Repair Manual!
No banging /freezing or re-packing a new sealed bearing with boat trailer grease!
I am really trying hard to give some positive input on bearings here and after many, many, official audits with SKF,CBC,and other bearing companies, I still don't think you should bang a bearing regardless of inner or outer bearing race! The same goes for freezing the bearing in this application.
(As I mentioned in the earlier post freeze, clean and re-pack bearings was done in industrial applications ea. Bearings 300mm to 1600mm OD and not on a sealed bearing).
But as I was saying earlier on" That is only my opinion Safe riding" [ride]
PS: I maybe ad down under "where things are done differently":peace:
 
#44 ·
Erling

I understand what you are saying but how long do think BMW will continue to replace bearings until one of the bean counters figures out how much that is costing them, legal pipes up about the looming liability and engineering gets told to rectify the issue once and for all? Several comments from posters claim that BMW is simply denying things. I beg to differ. We are talking about a huge company complete with its' own bureaucracy selling product worldwide. It cannot possibly react as quickly as we may like. However, if people just arbitrarily take the issue into their own hands, then in the long run, we possibly create more problems.

As a result, BMW may not be made aware of how many bikes are actually having this issue and unaware prospective buyers of second hand bikes may be purchasing units that have had rear wheel bearing replacements done by previous owners who may or may not have known what they were doing.

So far, BMW has been pretty good with issues. The recall campaigns have been addressing chains, cracking gas tanks, coolant hoses, front axles, etc. It does take time however and this is still an early production bike, so yes, I will have my bearings replaced by a qualified BMW technician, under warranty, if they do in fact need replacing, which to date, they don't and neither did my gas tank, shock bolt, or chain need replacing either. So no, I would not think twice about going on a 2000 mile trip based on an internet thread when I have had them checked.

I would however postpone a 2000 mile trip if I knew I had a bike with aftermarket rear bearings installed by a previous owner who may or may not have done a proper job.

Perhaps, as an airline pilot, I am coming at this from a different perspective. I could never accept an airplane for flight unless I was sure it was airworthy and maintained by properly qualified personnel. In fact I am legally obligated not to. So I treat my bike with the equal respect because the possible outcome for negligence is the same.
 
#45 ·
+1 Paul
I have changed my bearings on a second hand set of wheels which I got no warranty cover.
On my bike I would not do it simply because it is under warranty. BMW problem, they will fix it!
If something goes wrong while I ride off road with the repaired set of wheels, it would be entirely my problem. I replaced my bearing with SKF but it does not mean that I will blindly trust any mechanical component and not check it after riding. There are certain signs leading up to a complete bearing failure quite a while before it happens.
Safe Riding!
 
#49 ·
Add me to the list, just had my rear tire replaced and bearings felt notchy. Slight scoring
on axle shaft from outermost RH bearing near sprocket. BMW dealer said wheel bearings not covered, pulled out warranty policy and showed me the print. So now I am looking at an estimate for $300 parts and labor. What kind of BS is BMW trying to pull?
A bearing is not a wear item, unless so is a cam bearing, crank bearing etc. Technically EVERYTHING could be considered a wear item.....

Looking at the new Multistrada more and more, I hate being jacked around by a manufacturer.
I spent a ton of money on what is marketed as a premium bike, I will give Ducati a try now.
 
#50 ·
Add me to the list, just had my rear tire replaced and bearings felt notchy. Slight scoring
on axle shaft from outermost RH bearing near sprocket. BMW dealer said wheel bearings not covered, pulled out warranty policy and showed me the print. So now I am looking at an estimate for $300 parts and labor. What kind of BS is BMW trying to pull?
A bearing is not a wear item, unless so is a cam bearing, crank bearing etc. Technically EVERYTHING could be considered a wear item.....

Looking at the new Multistrada more and more, I hate being jacked around by a manufacturer.
I spent a ton of money on what is marketed as a premium bike, I will give Ducati a try now.
Your dealer have`nt got a clue....... Really...... Not kidding here. There is a bulletin covering this....with a replacement procedure including a different axle.....The replacement bearings are red in color so to see the difference...... The reason I know..... I had mine done at my dealer in NM..... They showed me the bulletin. You need to re-visit with your dealer..... Enlighten him....so to speak.....[thumb][thumb]

Erling
 
#57 ·
I know what you mean. I try to avoid the first generation of anything if I can help it. I made an exception with F800GS however.

Like Partytime, I lust over the new Multistrada but will wait several model years before pulling the trigger on that one!:thumb:

Don't even start me on new generation aircraft! We will be taking delivery of our Dreamliners shortly. I will be purposely avoiding piloting that one for awhile.
 
#58 ·
I know what you mean. I try to avoid the first generation of anything if I can help it. I made an exception with F800GS however.

Like Partytime, I lust over the new Multistrada but will wait several model years before pulling the trigger on that one!:thumb:

Don't even start me on new generation aircraft! We will be taking delivery of our Dreamliners shortly. I will be purposely avoiding piloting that one for awhile.
[lol][lol][lol][lol]......I hear you.....That ought to be a fun transition....." Ctl+Alt+Del".....

[thumb][thumb]

Erling
 
#68 · (Edited)
oh my oh my!!!!
if any of you have followed the three threads in advrider related to this subject you will find out :

1,,from day one i advocated the 'scientific method' to find the source of the bearing failures versus the endless speculation about brand of bearing ,,,country of origin,,,seal color ad nauseum

2,,i have immplored my fellow riders to bring it to their dealer ,,make sure it is written up so that they have recourse in case the bearings fail again aswell as giving BMW a heads up that there really is a problem,,,AND i too do not feel we the customer should be doing it.!!!
i have only offered my services in the past to those souls that got jacked around by their dealers and wanted PEACE OF MIND before going on looong jaunts.

3,,educating the inmates that popping in new bearings even if they are looser fitted C-5 versus the original speced C-3s does not constitute a repair or a fix to the problem,,,no different then swapping band aids constitutes a fix for a tumor...the problem is FIXED when they either give you another wheel with properly speced hub,,or rebuild your wheel with a properly speced hub ,,,or have a professional machine/hone the bore to spec..end of story

4,,all the banter about getting BMW to fix your bike is fine,,,BUT what do you do when they have no hubs in stock for over a year,,nada,,,squat nothing ,, no where in the system,,,i guess their answer was ''Swap bearings til the new hubs/wheels get in''....my answer is to FIX what ya have and be done with it!!,,no more worrying about my bearings failing.......i myself like the dear pilot had to fly in the airplanes i repaired when i was in USMC air wing...later i road-raced the machines i buildt,,,.i have never ever lost sight of building/designing/repairing any thing i touch that would leave me with a gnawing suspicion that something i did was not right...and folks smack me if i'm wrong but having bearing swapping cure mis-bored hubs is the last innovative solution i would expect from Bavaria...if i were in the outback,,sure i'd replace em to get to the nearest place i could repair the problem
OBTW,,,in the mean time i ended up designing tougher/beefier/lighter ones to satisfy the demand...

5,,and Mr.Pilot,,,i bet you wouldn't want that gnawing suspicion floating around your head that lockheed or boeing or,,,had a similar fix on your airplane if the scenario were similar,,,the sad part is most riders have implicit trust that their problem was solved when they brought their crunchy bearings in for repair

6,,what i offer my customers is the latest in innovation,,,practices learned from the school of hard knocks and racing,,,,so one more BWOE for those souls that do round the world jaunts,,the water crossers and their ilk,,,i learned that cleaning and re-packing the bearings with boat-trailer waterproof grease does the job mo better and much longer then the skimpy pig -fat installed in most of the chinese bearings,,,it's just an option ,,,i have no manuals from the factory authorizing it,,,and OBTW no bearing failures from any of my customers/racers in 37 years,,

7,, ''there are many roads that lead to Rome'' i'm told ,,,sometimes i'v e found there are better ways that are not even on the map...and sometimes i had to hack my own way there,,,

8,,Rumi says:

Today, like every other day, we wake up empty
and frightened. Don’t open the door to the study
and begin reading. Take down a musical instrument.
Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground.

9,,Pax vobiscum!!
woody
 
#69 ·
5,,and Mr.Pilot,,,i bet you wouldn't want that gnawing suspicion floating around your head that lockheed or boeing or,,,had a similar fix on your airplane if the scenario were similar,,,the sad part is most riders have implicit trust that their problem wa ssolved when they bring their crunchy bearings for repair
Woody

It just so happens that yes, on the B777 we did have issues with main bearings in the turbine section of the GE engines. The fix was to replace the bearings every 50 hours until GE came up with a permanent solution. ( which they did ) That did not stop all the GE powered B777's of the world from flying until the permanent fix came. Things like this are not uncommon. The difference is, it is monitored and evaluated by qualified people which is my entire point. ( read not shade tree mechanics armed with a laptop )

The one thing you and I have in common however is that we both feel this needs to be addressed properly without a band aid solution. Unfortunately, until BMW gets that resolved, that is what we are faced with ( unless of course we go with a new hub which is an option ) and I would rather that than ride some bike that has had new bearings mashed into the hub by a shade tree mechanic based on what he has read on an internet thread, using a torch, a freezer and a mallet. I would be willing to bet that some ADVriders have done just that. That obviously does not imply you. Each person who does this, eliminates another bike from BMW ever needing to replace the bearings and essentially "masks" the problem. It also lets BMW off the hook for any future issue regarding bearings on the subject bike which you and I both know, will likely reoccur. Then the guy risks suffering a bearing failure because he honestly believes he has solved the problem, which results in injury or worse.

I personally would love to buy your product. Not just to replace the hubs but to also get the tubes out from under my tires. In no way am I trying to discourage that practice. However I believe that in this particular case, BMW should fork out for the expense, not me. To each his own. I am confident in my bearings for now and the routine inspections are confirming that. If they need to be replaced by the dealer until a permanent solution comes about, then I am willing to do that also, for now at least. I think essentially, we are on the same page, just reading it from different ends.
 
#71 ·
I have finally installed the reconditioned wheels on my bike which I am continuously monitoring with temperature measurements as I go. So far so good. I have taken the bike off road a bit more seriously this time, since I got the TCK80 (stock) on those wheels. I have done 600km.Off road now. All I have to say is this bike is fun if you know what you are doing off road. It does kick arse!!! I have to mention also that my Bitubo suspension upgrade made a world of difference as well!!!

I have for the first time seen or experienced the true potential of this bike and even after reading many posts of failures limitations and other problems I can only say the biggest limitations I can see is rider confidence. I can now imagine what the bike could do with some more aggressive tyres as well![ride]
On my off road trip (accompanied by my friend on a 250 Yamaha) I have purposely picked the worst lines, ruts and other scenarios just to see what the final limit of my off road abilities on this bike is and I could not be more satisfied with the outcome!:peace:
But back to the topic of the old wheel bearing. I contacted our SKF reliability Engineer which we use for our day to day engineering problems at work and have been told (after submitting size and material of hub) bearing seat in this application as per SKF recommendation is tighter in a aluminium hub, taking it down from a N7 46.967min 46.992max to a tighter fit close to P7 or tighter.
Main reason being the aluminium hub which in this particular application will, with temperature increase, expand much more rapidly and to a greater extend as the bearing.
The original bearings after 10000km are OK. Only problem so far is the valve cover weeping which after telling my mechanic, is a known weak spot on some bikes and will be fixed on my 10000km service this week and under warranty. I was also insured that a premature bearing failure would result in a replacement under warranty at no cost to me.
Best thing is I have booked the K1300S for a test ride (loaner) for my service appointment.
Looks like the perfect second ride to me:whoo:[:D][:D][:D]
 
#72 ·
Woody

With all due respect, [bow] I think you may be taking my comments a little too personally and I do not want BMW to pay for a tubeless wire wheels upgrade nor did I ever say that. [sure] I would like them to fix the hub. Thats it, thats all.

Kind of like they did with the chain and the fuel tank and the front axle and the top cooling hose and the various other campaigns that people bitched about but eventually got rectified. And if to use your own words, people were needing to replace bearings every 2-4 km and assuming they were doing this at the dealer, don't you think BMW would realize that perhaps the actual issue may not be the bearing? [bh]

Anyway, I am done with this topic.
 
#73 · (Edited)
Woody

With all due respect, [bow] I think you may be taking my comments a little too personally and I do not want BMW to pay for a tubeless wire wheels upgrade nor did I ever say that. [sure] I would like them to fix the hub. That's it, thats all.i just re-read that section,,i ''get it'' now that your comment was about the bearing ,sorry ,,that sentence followed you just talking about loving to go tubeless and my ol oxygen deprived brain was a lil slow,,hence my assumption

Kind of like they did with the chain and the fuel tank and the front axle and the top cooling hose and the various other campaigns that people bitched about but eventually got rectified. And if to use your own words, people were needing to replace bearings every 2-4 km and assuming they were doing this at the dealer, don't you think BMW would realize that perhaps the actual issue may not be the bearing? [bh]

personally i would bet they knew of this problem along time ago,,and from sources within the factory and their suppliers i've learned that some of these events are allowed to slip through being rationalized as minor teething annoyances,,,in other word getting the bike to market for all the pres releases/fanfare is more important,,so be it,,

sorry,, it's the whole laying blame on the rider first ,,'you must have crossed a stream or power-washed your bike,',,or the never ending ''What problem??? we haven't had any or heard of any bad bearings'' mantra etc etc ....that gets to me and those that have to hear it....and yes, i know there are many great dealers out there who bat for you and do their damndest for you to be a happy chappy,,god bless em,,,by the feedback on the net there's another batch out there that's doing the very opposite....what would you do if you got handled like 'partytime' and were asked to foot$300 in parts n labor????


Anyway, I am done with this topic.
i wish i could say the same ,,,,because now 2 years later folks are still coming down with this problem even on some 2010s,,,insanity is having that batch of say 100 mis-machined hubs scattered throughout thousands of good ones,,,,in the meantime last week i checked 3 wheels ,,2 were ok and coincidentally had both bores with .001'' crush,,the bad one had .003'' on disc and .002 on sprocket side..been there before,,,

woody

PS,,just had to check on the heat n shrink method,,found this for your perusal called ''Bearing Installation",,,, had to chuckle when i reached the end,,,''this article compliments of SKF''[:)]

http://www.machinediagnostics.com/pdf/Bearings, Gears and Lubrication/Bearing Mounting Basics.pdf
 
#74 ·
Rear wheel Bearing & Axle

I too have just had a failure of the rear wheel bearings & axle. I took my bike to have a 24000 mile service and change of drive belt & cush drive at the dealership that it was bought from new, who to be fair, have dealt with me very fairly. Only to be told when they came to change the belt that the bearings had got excessive play in them and the axle was also worn.

They warned me that this was going to be expensive and when pressed were at first non committal as they said that they would try to get some contribution under BMW 'goodwill' as the bike was four years old. They came back and said that BMW had given me the middle finger as the 'goodwill' replacement date had expired (note the date 1st April 2010)

I phoned BMW head quarters after reading this forum and asked why if this was a known problem with early bikes (mines a 2006 model) why were the bearings and axle not changed at dealerships when these bikes were in for service or a general recall made to have the problem sorted?

After a lot of argument and digging in of heels by me, BMW agreed to supply the parts FOC, but I would have to foot the bill for the labour. At least I got a result in not having to fork out nearly £500 for parts, though for the life of me I can not understand why an axle costs £350.00, bearings I can accept at £50, but all in all it is a piss take!!!
 
#76 ·
Had my rear wheel bearings replaced under warranty at 12,000 miles on my F800S. Now at 41,000 with no visible signs of wear. Does anyone with the F800S/ST's have any new found problems/solutions on this issue? I imagine 07 models and beyond are racking up some good miles by now. Any updates?
 
#77 ·
bearing failure 2008 f800st

Just returned from dealer , my back tire seized , chewed through 1/2 my belt , wobbling, dangerous... my bike is 60,000 km The inside of bearing dry and crumbly..everyone should check and save yourself from dangerous lock up

REAR AXIL BEARINGS ARE FAILING.I have seen some threads on the f800s/st side but very little information on the gs side.
I have read a lot about the rear bearing issue on the ADVrider site and I'm concerned the information is not getting out. VERY VERY important to check those rear bearings. I change my own tires so I was doing it anyway. If someone else is changing your tires please have them CHECK the bearings for any sign af failure. Lost hubs maybe even lost lives are at stake here.
btw, at 5100 miles my rear bearing on the rotor side his rough. Taking the bike to the dealer, Woodys wheel shop in Denver recommended on the ADVrider site to get the dealers involved. maybe a design problem with the rear axil.
If anyone else has seen problems let us know. I post what happens at the dealer.ride safe <>< Craigster
 
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