800 Twin Idle Air Controller Failure

Excellent troubleshooting Bob, and valuable info for us all.

Yes I've had this unit fail (mine just packed up so no idle even after a power off and re-start)
I managed to get it replaced and even saw one cheap on ebay so have a spare on had as well.

Thanks for posting this!!! Great info!!!

Thanks for the info, I'm having idle issues with my 08 S model. I've had it to the dealer four times now for the idle problem.

This is hardly worth an entry to the hall of wisdom....

If you had taken the air controller apart, fixed it and put it back together, I'd be marginally more impressed

Getting someone else to change it for you doesn't really constitute wisdom.

[sure]

C'mon Dunny - you're being a bit hard aren't you? Wisdom is wisdom, no matter the source, and the HoW is the best place to share it.
[err]

a stupid is, a stupid does [][]

most, not all....[]

Bob -

I can't recall having any 'hunting for idle' issues, but I was experiencing cut-outs quite a while ago. Then none for a while (maybe the breather hose fix helped?), and about four in the same week very recently.

Anyway, I am wondering how were you able to rule out the other possible causes (i.e.: fuel pump/controller; ECU; etc.) and determine it was the Idle Control Device.

My bike is currently at the dealer for this issue. Even though it is out of warranty, I'm hoping that maybe they'll throw me a bone since I had it in a couple of times for cutting-out while it was still under warranty (hey, I can dream =). I don't know if they've started working on it yet, but if I can determine with any degree of certainty that it could be this part, I figure I might as well order one and replace it myself for what it will likely cost me just to have them look at my bike.

Thanks in advance!

Glad to help polackium. I hope my little "adventure" in diagnosing a problem with the idle air controller helps you out. I was not there when the mechanic tested the fuel pump, but he said he removed it from the tank, checked for any debris in the tank, and then proceeded to run voltage test and "stress test" the pump and it preformed well by all measures. I also know that he checked the ECU and replaced the firmware several times over the course of trying to figure out what the problem was. Basically, the bike ran well at speed, the problem was related to idle only so that pointed to the idle system which takes over below about 1200-1500 rpm. There is no way to check an intermittent Idle Control Device. The ICD throws no fault code. So while it looks like it is functioning normally (remove the left fairing air snorkel and you can see the top of it while the bike is idling ). Also, I should mention that BMW engineers (Germany) and other BMW mechanics (California) kept telling my mechanic (Harold) that, it was NOT the ICD and that it WAS the fuel pump, respectively. So, in the end it was a collaborative effort of testing, conversing with my mechanic, and a process of elimination that led to ME replacing the ICD. If you read my post above you will notice that the Loctite that hold the threaded shaft from turning in the guts of the IDC failed. It came unglued. If your ICD top (plunger) turns in the internals of the ICD it has failed. Replace it. I suppose we could have used Loctite to possibly fix the old ICD, but why do that when you can replace the part yourself for under $150 and be done with it?

Lastly, for one "mind", any problem which confounds mechanics and engineers, throws no fault codes, and takes months to diagnose does belong in a Hall of Wisdom. The old ICD was kept so Harold could educate the folks in Germany. If anything does not belong in a Hall of Wisdom Forum it is uneducated comments, unhelpful quips and scarcastic one-liners. They do nothing to help solve problems that can beset a complex machine, and riders who reach out knowledge to correct them. Forums are to help people, not to impress. Even marginally.

Bob, thanks for the additional info. As is my typical luck, the dealer was unable to reproduce the cutting out after a number of test rides. They even said that if it were still under warranty they'd have gone ahead and replaced the fuel pump. However, I don't feel like gambling the $500 right at the moment if they aren't even reasonably sure it might help.

They ended up updating the ECU firmware and running some fuel system/injector cleaner through it. I doubt the injector cleaner will do much (I stick to name brand gas stations - primarily Chevron - and run cleaner through it periodically), but who knows. However, if it was still running an earlier firmware version than that which apparently addressed cutting out (ver 10?), maybe that'll do the trick. If not, my next step will be to replace the ICD and see what happens from there. I'm actually on my way out the door to pick it up now, so I may know soon enough.

Thanks again (from one of the stupid people) and FWIW, I agree this is certainly HoW-worthy, especially with the additional background =)

Ok... So I just bought a used 07 F800ST. Loved it til I started getting overly frustrated at it stalling on me when slowing to stop. The kicker.... The dealer can't seem to figure out why as it's intermittent in doing it. They've replaced the actuator hose.... replaced it with the newer version with the bend to prevent it from kinking... 300$ and a wk later, riding her back home from the dealer, thinking the problem had been solved and I no longer had to worry about her dying on me, she dies apon rolling up to a stop light. I'm now frustrated, irritated and discouraged. Is this controller different and a separate part the the hoses I've already replaced and possible the cause? Any help would be appreciated as the dealer is clueless and I've been eating crow big time with all the smak I've been spuing to all the Harley riders I ride with.

Lol.... Oh Ive been eating this "crow" raw, totally and completely raw [xx(] Talking how I ride a "real" bike and how Harleys are always in the shop! Well now guess what.... Out for a ride over the wk end with like 9 other Harleys and my BMW, on top of the stalling when coming to a stop issue, I lose my gear shift while getting on the highway. Yep, not good! I had put only about an hour of riding time on her after picking her up from the dealer. Which brings me to this question.... Would the dealer have possible had to take off the gear shift to change out the actuater hose and then maybe not completely tightened the gear shift screw?

Sorry for my ignorance here.... Ive only been riding a motorcycle for about 4 months.

Unlikely they touched the gear lever.
But not great they didn't notice it loose. Guess that's just life.



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Yep - sounds like the idle actuator not responding effectively. As Richard says, pressure them into replacing it for parts only cost. If you've already paid that much and they didn't solve it, they owe you.

Is the idle actuator different from the idle air controller? Which would be the more likely fix? And which would require more labor to replace....?

Thanks for your opinions...

Yes- I believe Idle Actuator is the official title but others have used different terms, including idle control device as for an earlier post in this thread. some like me have had kinked hoses that connect between it and throttle bodies while others have had it intermittently stick or eventually fail. See my Hall of Wisdom post for an explanation of its operation. It's fitted to the bottom of the airbox and shouldn't take a competent mechanic or DIY more than an hour to swap.

For what it's worth....

I was, and to some degree, am still having the stalling problem with my f800s. After having it a month or so it started stalling constantly, just like everyone else. I had it in and out of the shop a few times, they did the hoses, the actuator, fuel pump, etc. They got BMW involved and still no fix. Then around Thanksgiving this past year, I just gave it to the dealership and asked them to keep it until it was fixed. That was about 45 day's total. I've had it back for a couple of months, and a few thousand miles now and its only died on me once or twice. That said, the idle does like to jump up to 2K for a few minutes every now and again, then drops right back to 1,200k to 1,300k. All in all, much better, so what did they do, you ask?
I was told that after everything, they re-set the throttle position sensor parameters. Sounded odd to me, but the bike runs, and they've stood behind their work so far.
I'm still surprised BMW doesn't have a solid fix for this issue to date.
Ride safe.

I am new to this and am looking for help big time! The bike is an 09 F800ST with 18 000 kms on the clock. I have read through all the comments on this problem but they all appear to deal with a cutting out problem on roll off prior to a gear down. Has anybody had this problem while cruising along at speed? Also when the bike cuts out it will not restart for approximately 5 minutes; it cranks over but will not catch and run. Once hot it will run for anything from 30 sec to 5 minutes before cutting out again.

This may be part of the problem or something else entirely but the frame on the left side (on mine the black part) becomes too hot to touch with a bare hand. My inner left thigh cooks and after more than an hour on the bike even at motorway cruising speeds (locally 120kph) this heat persists. The right side also get hot but not as bad as the left.

The agents have repalced the idle actuator, re loaded the software and replaced the fuel pump so far to no avail. In the 46 days I have owned the bike it has been in the shop for 22 of them

All help and advice most welcome.

it sounds like it might be the fuel pump controller checkout this thread http://f800riders.org/forum/showthr...2-The-dreaded-cutting-bike-cutting-out-problem-f800st-2008?highlight=controller[8D]

After reading thru all the responses here in 1 sitting, I have a few things to add.

The EFI system on the F800 bikes is the latest digital technology but appears to be more problematic than similar systems on cars. Part of it is that all the components are new production runs specific to motorcycles, which typically see more vibration, wider operating voltage swings, and more frequent/larger throttle applications. These variables sort out any design weaknesses really fast. Added to that I found simple things that can cause many of the all too common stalling nightmares after a few years service.

1-- In my new bike that I got on Jun 9, 2009 I found the battery terminal bolts finger tight at the 600 mile check in my garage. I tightened them immediately after calling the dealer the usual group of F words, hoping the neighbors did not hear me talking to myself. Some months later when adding a Key-On power strip . . . I found them NOT as tight as I had tightened them! About 1/2 as tight. That's when I realized they needed SS lock washers and slightly longer SS bolts. That cured the problem and I took back every F word I called the dealer service dept. It wasn't their fault. It was BMW's. Imagine what a buzzkill loose battery terminals would do for the charging system and EFI system -until- the starter began to stop working because of the loose terminal(s). It could corrupt the software/firmware and make it misbehave in really annoying ways. Like needing a Windows PC OS reload after it gets corrupted. More than just a Ctrl-Alt-Del 3 finger salute.

2-- After overfilling the fuel tank in a remote NY mountainous area to ensure I'd have enough good fuel to ride all I wanted for hours, I got a wicked flame-out after accelerating uphill, passing cars. I blamed the CAN-bus system while experiencing an extreme level and overpowering form of disbelief that my near new BMW had developed a serious running anomaly. It behaved like fuel starvation, but in reality it was trying to burn the liquid fuel that was fed to the charcoal canister when the high fuel level wave got past the normally functioning tip-over valve upon heavy uphill acceleration. It may have been fuel starvation if the O2 sensor told the computer it was too rich and kept cutting the fuel. It took 1/2 to full throttle to clear it out, then it gradually began running and idling better after 10 minutes riding, progressing all the way to perfect after 20 minutes. During the ride I eventually put the facts together, plus the fact it gradually got better (not a characteristic of faulty electronics) and realized it was all my fault - - - over-filling the fuel tank and flooding the charcoal filter.

3-- Too many times to mention I read where the owners disconnect the battery to do service work, then experience stalling and poor throttle response for quite a while, then it just clears up by itself. They failed to perform the key on TPS recalibration with the idle-to-full throttle movements re-entering the full range data points into the BMS-K computer. It eventually "clears up on it's own" because they finally went to full throttle while riding, teaching the computer the true TPS data points. Duh!

4-- Not every engine running malfunction will set a trouble code, but too many riders ignore that as the very first step to take. A $300 GS-911 gives you that ability AND allows you to reset/test/calibrate most all the EFI components and indicator lights, even turn on the cooling fan! It is without a doubt the best $$$ I've spent on my (BMW) bikes and, with always FREE regular internet downloadable firmware updates it will work on every new and most older BMW bikes too. All you gear head wrenches out there stuck on BMW (like me), buy 1 for you helping your ride and 9 other BMW bikes, then kiss the dealer goodby! Or not.

5-- Another great skill is the ability to diagnose complex systems using basic electrical/mechanical skills with a good dose of experience (some of it costly!!). Rule #1 . . Always make the easy shots FIRST!! Electrical connections, the ability to function check clean and maybe lubricate individual components while they are removed from home, the source of new noises, the coolant level, the oil level too high too low, the condition/age or load test of the battery . . . it's terminals and the air filter. Is the fuel trustworthy and what riding condition (rain, heavy WFO) could have caused the new problem. The easy 1st shot? Disconnect the battery for 30 seconds, turn the key on then off to kill any residual voltage, reconnect battery and perform the TPS calibration. Ride 20+ miles normally until the EFI fuel map is "trimmed" by the EFI computer before making any hasty judgements.

BTW, the tipover valve is at a 45 degree offset from the bolt pattern so a 2 dimensional sensor can function in 3 dimensions with a full tank, during wheelies or a left or right tipover, all of which would normally put liquid fuel into the tank vapor venting system.

It's a good thing my `09 F800ST runs absolutely perfect as it nears 20K miles, same sparkplugs, running Regular grade Chevron/Texaco 10% Ethanol gasoline without pinging, since it was new. New Z-8 Metzelers and owner installed front fork GoldValves have made it into an awesome racebike . . . that's ridden only on the street.

What continues to amaze me is how too many BMW dealers, sometimes after WEEKS/MONTHS of bike possession, are unable to fix a running problem. Why is that? Are they not able to think out-of-the-box and only use what they were taught in a M/C school? Why is it SO DIFFICULT for SO MANY dealers to reload the latest BMS-K firmware? Why is the BMW factory so UNWILLING to dig in it's heels and FINALLY FIX those problems many riders are experiencing that they say is not a common problem? Are they saving THAT MUCH MONEY looking the other way as their reputation gets weaker by the year? Too many BMW owners are going back to chain drive Hondas.