800 Twin Idle Air Controller Failure

[bobmetzger51]

It took patience, and the help of the dealer to figure out what was NOT causing the 2007 F800ST to:

1) Hunt for idle, meaning at times the bike idle would surge as much as +/- 500 r.p.m.
2) Have the engine cut-out when downshifting below about 1500 r.p.m.

In my case, these two problems were related.

As it turns out the solution to both of the above issues was a faulty Idle Air Controller.
Part No. 13717676317 IDLE CONTROL DEVICE 0.25 1 $133.70
There is a worm gear inside the device which receives input from the EMS. Those inputs, on idle, moves the top of the device in and out of the port that controls the idle air supply delivered to the engine via the two idle actuator hoses. The tip of the device, I will call the plunger, for lack of a better word, screws into the idle control device and is fixed in place with what looked like a Loctite type of thread sealant. At normal running above about 1500 r.p.m. the plunger rises to plug the hole to the idle air circuit. When the throttle is backed off, i.e. downshifting to a stop where the idle circuit comes into play, I am lead to believe (because we never directly observed it ) that the plunger would stay in the idle air supply hole as the device tried to pull it down by rotating the worm gear. Because the plunger screw was no longer secured to the control device internals, when the worm gear rotated, the plunger and screw would stay fixed into the idle air intake port, and the bike would die.

Now, here is the rub... the bike dies. The rider turns off the ignition. The Idle Control Device resets itself... that is the little "gurrgle" sound you hear when you turn the key coming from the air box. Now reset, like a "virus" the controller begins to function again, and patiently waits for next set of circumstances to fall into place causing it to fail and kill the engine or cause wild swings in the engine idle.

This part is easily replaceable by the bike owner in about an hour. Cautionary note: When replacing the air box make certain that you do not kink either of the two idle air supply hoses. Better yet, replace both if your bike does not have the new pre-formed hoses available from BMW. Or, use the trick that Mokkybear employed by wrapping the air supply hoses with some substantial wire to prevent kinking.

See Hall Of Wisdom Post by Mokkybear: Idle Control - Idle Actuator Air Bleed Circuit for more information on this subject.

Over 650 miles have been ridden since replacing the Idle Air Control Device with no remaining stalling or poor idle performance issues.

[Mokkybear]

Excellent troubleshooting Bob, and valuable info for us all.

[Pat H]

Yes I've had this unit fail (mine just packed up so no idle even after a power off and re-start)
I managed to get it replaced and even saw one cheap on ebay so have a spare on had as well.

[Tonya N.]

Thanks for posting this!!! Great info!!!

[gsh1212]

Thanks for the info, I'm having idle issues with my 08 S model. I've had it to the dealer four times now for the idle problem.

[Dunny]

This is hardly worth an entry to the hall of wisdom....

If you had taken the air controller apart, fixed it and put it back together, I'd be marginally more impressed

Getting someone else to change it for you doesn't really constitute wisdom.

[Mokkybear]

C'mon Dunny - you're being a bit hard aren't you? Wisdom is wisdom, no matter the source, and the HoW is the best place to share it.

[Dunny]

C'mon Dunny - you're being a bit hard aren't you? Wisdom is wisdom, no matter the source, and the HoW is the best place to share it.

The Hall of Wisdom is just a place that panders to all the stupid people on the site....

[rbaxter336]

a stupid is, a stupid does

[Mokkybear]

The Hall of Wisdom is just a place that panders to all the stupid people on the site....

That's right, Dunny. That's why most of us come to this site - to gain some of that wisdom, and what better place to go if you need some wisdom or have a bit to share amongst us great unwashed.

[Dunny]

most, not all....

[polackium]

Bob -

I can't recall having any 'hunting for idle' issues, but I was experiencing cut-outs quite a while ago. Then none for a while (maybe the breather hose fix helped?), and about four in the same week very recently.

Anyway, I am wondering how were you able to rule out the other possible causes (i.e.: fuel pump/controller; ECU; etc.) and determine it was the Idle Control Device.

My bike is currently at the dealer for this issue. Even though it is out of warranty, I'm hoping that maybe they'll throw me a bone since I had it in a couple of times for cutting-out while it was still under warranty (hey, I can dream =). I don't know if they've started working on it yet, but if I can determine with any degree of certainty that it could be this part, I figure I might as well order one and replace it myself for what it will likely cost me just to have them look at my bike.

Thanks in advance!

[bobmetzger51]

Glad to help polackium. I hope my little "adventure" in diagnosing a problem with the idle air controller helps you out. I was not there when the mechanic tested the fuel pump, but he said he removed it from the tank, checked for any debris in the tank, and then proceeded to run voltage test and "stress test" the pump and it preformed well by all measures. I also know that he checked the ECU and replaced the firmware several times over the course of trying to figure out what the problem was. Basically, the bike ran well at speed, the problem was related to idle only so that pointed to the idle system which takes over below about 1200-1500 rpm. There is no way to check an intermittent Idle Control Device. The ICD throws no fault code. So while it looks like it is functioning normally (remove the left fairing air snorkel and you can see the top of it while the bike is idling ). Also, I should mention that BMW engineers (Germany) and other BMW mechanics (California) kept telling my mechanic (Harold) that, it was NOT the ICD and that it WAS the fuel pump, respectively. So, in the end it was a collaborative effort of testing, conversing with my mechanic, and a process of elimination that led to ME replacing the ICD. If you read my post above you will notice that the Loctite that hold the threaded shaft from turning in the guts of the IDC failed. It came unglued. If your ICD top (plunger) turns in the internals of the ICD it has failed. Replace it. I suppose we could have used Loctite to possibly fix the old ICD, but why do that when you can replace the part yourself for under $150 and be done with it?

Lastly, for one "mind", any problem which confounds mechanics and engineers, throws no fault codes, and takes months to diagnose does belong in a Hall of Wisdom. The old ICD was kept so Harold could educate the folks in Germany. If anything does not belong in a Hall of Wisdom Forum it is uneducated comments, unhelpful quips and scarcastic one-liners. They do nothing to help solve problems that can beset a complex machine, and riders who reach out knowledge to correct them. Forums are to help people, not to impress. Even marginally.

[polackium]

Bob, thanks for the additional info. As is my typical luck, the dealer was unable to reproduce the cutting out after a number of test rides. They even said that if it were still under warranty they'd have gone ahead and replaced the fuel pump. However, I don't feel like gambling the $500 right at the moment if they aren't even reasonably sure it might help.

They ended up updating the ECU firmware and running some fuel system/injector cleaner through it. I doubt the injector cleaner will do much (I stick to name brand gas stations - primarily Chevron - and run cleaner through it periodically), but who knows. However, if it was still running an earlier firmware version than that which apparently addressed cutting out (ver 10?), maybe that'll do the trick. If not, my next step will be to replace the ICD and see what happens from there. I'm actually on my way out the door to pick it up now, so I may know soon enough.

Thanks again (from one of the stupid people) and FWIW, I agree this is certainly HoW-worthy, especially with the additional background =)

[GRLS BK]

Ok... So I just bought a used 07 F800ST. Loved it til I started getting overly frustrated at it stalling on me when slowing to stop. The kicker.... The dealer can't seem to figure out why as it's intermittent in doing it. They've replaced the actuator hose.... replaced it with the newer version with the bend to prevent it from kinking... 300$ and a wk later, riding her back home from the dealer, thinking the problem had been solved and I no longer had to worry about her dying on me, she dies apon rolling up to a stop light. I'm now frustrated, irritated and discouraged. Is this controller different and a separate part the the hoses I've already replaced and possible the cause? Any help would be appreciated as the dealer is clueless and I've been eating crow big time with all the smak I've been spuing to all the Harley riders I ride with.

[richarde1605]

Ok... So I just bought a used 07 F800ST. Loved it til I started getting overly frustrated at it stalling on me when slowing to stop. The kicker.... The dealer can't seem to figure out why as it's intermittent in doing it. They've replaced the actuator hose.... replaced it with the newer version with the bend to prevent it from kinking... 300$ and a wk later, riding her back home from the dealer, thinking the problem had been solved and I no longer had to worry about her dying on me, she dies apon rolling up to a stop light. I'm now frustrated, irritated and discouraged. Is this controller different and a separate part the the hoses I've already replaced and possible the cause? Any help would be appreciated as the dealer is clueless and I've been eating crow big time with all the smak I've been spuing to all the Harley riders I ride with.

First of all, welcome Denise, yes the idle air controller is a separate part to the hoses. I hate it when the people you trust let you down (dealers).

What is your crow recipe? Do they need to be boiled with a rock, and when the rock is dissolved, you throw out the bird and drink what's left? If so they are much the same as our cockatoo's. We get ravens down my way, not crows.

Good luck, and pressure them into fixing the bike, parts only, with credit for labor already done. I assume it's not under their warranty.

[GRLS BK]

Lol.... Oh Ive been eating this "crow" raw, totally and completely raw Talking how I ride a "real" bike and how Harleys are always in the shop! Well now guess what.... Out for a ride over the wk end with like 9 other Harleys and my BMW, on top of the stalling when coming to a stop issue, I lose my gear shift while getting on the highway. Yep, not good! I had put only about an hour of riding time on her after picking her up from the dealer. Which brings me to this question.... Would the dealer have possible had to take off the gear shift to change out the actuater hose and then maybe not completely tightened the gear shift screw?

Sorry for my ignorance here.... Ive only been riding a motorcycle for about 4 months.

[GRLS BK]

First of all, welcome Denise, yes the idle air controller is a separate part to the hoses. I hate it when the people you trust let you down (dealers).

What is your crow recipe? Do they need to be boiled with a rock, and when the rock is dissolved, you throw out the bird and drink what's left? If so they are much the same as our cockatoo's. We get ravens down my way, not crows.

Good luck, and pressure them into fixing the bike, parts only, with credit for labor already done. I assume it's not under their warranty.

Lol.... Oh Ive been eating this "crow" raw, totally and completely raw! Talking how I ride a "real" bike and how Harleys are always in the shop! Well now guess what.... Out for a ride over the wk end with like 9 other Harleys and my BMW, on top of the stalling when coming to a stop issue, I lose my gear shift while getting on the highway. Yep, not good! I had put only about an hour of riding time on her after picking her up from the dealer. Which brings me to this question.... Would the dealer have possible had to take off the gear shift to change out the actuater hose and then maybe not completely tightened the gear shift screw?

Sorry for my ignorance here.... Ive only been riding a motorcycle for about 4 months.

[Pat H]

Unlikely they touched the gear lever.
But not great they didn't notice it loose. Guess that's just life.



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[GRLS BK]

[QUOTE=Pat H;622718]Unlikely they touched the gear lever.
But not great they didn't notice it loose. Guess that's just life.


I forgot to add... I had just gotten it back from them (dealer) a wk prior after having had them lower her.

[Mokkybear]

Yep - sounds like the idle actuator not responding effectively. As Richard says, pressure them into replacing it for parts only cost. If you've already paid that much and they didn't solve it, they owe you.

[GRLS BK]

Is the idle actuator different from the idle air controller? Which would be the more likely fix? And which would require more labor to replace....?

Thanks for your opinions...

[Mokkybear]

Yes- I believe Idle Actuator is the official title but others have used different terms, including idle control device as for an earlier post in this thread. some like me have had kinked hoses that connect between it and throttle bodies while others have had it intermittently stick or eventually fail. See my Hall of Wisdom post for an explanation of its operation. It's fitted to the bottom of the airbox and shouldn't take a competent mechanic or DIY more than an hour to swap.

[gsh1212]

I was, and to some degree, am still having the stalling problem with my f800s. After having it a month or so it started stalling constantly, just like everyone else. I had it in and out of the shop a few times, they did the hoses, the actuator, fuel pump, etc. They got BMW involved and still no fix. Then around Thanksgiving this past year, I just gave it to the dealership and asked them to keep it until it was fixed. That was about 45 day’s total. I've had it back for a couple of months, and a few thousand miles now and its only died on me once or twice. That said, the idle does like to jump up to 2K for a few minutes every now and again, then drops right back to 1,200k to 1,300k. All in all, much better, so what did they do, you ask?
I was told that after everything, they re-set the throttle position sensor parameters. Sounded odd to me, but the bike runs, and they’ve stood behind their work so far.
I'm still surprised BMW doesn't have a solid fix for this issue to date.
Ride safe.

[Wilma]

I am new to this and am looking for help big time! The bike is an 09 F800ST with 18 000 kms on the clock. I have read through all the comments on this problem but they all appear to deal with a cutting out problem on roll off prior to a gear down. Has anybody had this problem while cruising along at speed? Also when the bike cuts out it will not restart for approximately 5 minutes; it cranks over but will not catch and run. Once hot it will run for anything from 30 sec to 5 minutes before cutting out again.

This may be part of the problem or something else entirely but the frame on the left side (on mine the black part) becomes too hot to touch with a bare hand. My inner left thigh cooks and after more than an hour on the bike even at motorway cruising speeds (locally 120kph) this heat persists. The right side also get hot but not as bad as the left.

The agents have repalced the idle actuator, re loaded the software and replaced the fuel pump so far to no avail. In the 46 days I have owned the bike it has been in the shop for 22 of them

All help and advice most welcome.

[rbaxter336]

it sounds like it might be the fuel pump controller checkout this thread http://f800riders.org/forum/showthre...ght=controller