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  1. #1
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    Too sad that a concert is the venue the flakes choose to injure and kill innocent attendees.

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    What a horrible act on our innocent youth. My condolences to anyone directly or indirectly affected.

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    I've just read the news. it's terrible.
    I still cannot understand the reason of any terroristic act. terrorism can only generate fear and hate but can never be the way that let people to solve their problems, rather it can only aggravate them.
    "putenza du gibbiuni!" dissi u sceccu quannu vitti u mari... ("what a big pool!" said the donkey when has seen the sea...) 

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    notacop is offline The original Schwartz Wald Troll
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    " terrorism can only generate fear and hate"

    That is the state of mind these people live in. It's their driving force.
    ISIS apparently took credit for a martyr taking their fight to the Crusaders.
    Stuff happened a thousand years ago and they can't let go. I do believe the past is more important to them than the future.

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    I do believe the past is more important to them than the future.
    I agree.
    "putenza du gibbiuni!" dissi u sceccu quannu vitti u mari... ("what a big pool!" said the donkey when has seen the sea...) 

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  9. #7
    Elgin, Scotland ST404 is offline Volunteer Moderator - GT
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    As a Mancunian (though now living 400 miles north) whose granddaughter was at that concert, I feel nothing but anger at the moment. Personally I think we're "to tolerant" of these pigs with extremist bigoted beliefs. Free speech is great as long as you respect everyone elses right to it in equal measure.

    Long may the fabulous City of Manchester prosper.

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    My sympathies and thoughts are with all those who not only got injured, also the family's of those who got killed, and everyone who has now to suffer the rest of their lives as a result of barbarianism.

    There are unfortunately a few Countries throughout this world, that bear grievances over many thousands of years, this includes Israel. I know ISIS has nothing to do with that country, but, memories are long, families do not forget, but, here in the UK, along with our fellows in the US and many, many other countries, we have short memories (thank god). This horror must not be forgotten, we should use all our strengths and resources to totally eliminate these thugs, if necessary to use ultimate bombs to eradicate these guy's.

    Yes there will be some who will shout in horror at this, those who would whinge and so on, all is needed will be to point at Manchester, Paris, and many other cities whom have suffered at the hands of cowards.

    Sorry everyone if I sound strong about this, but fight these guys with what we have and they see us as week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST404 View Post
    I feel nothing but anger at the moment. Personally I think we're "to tolerant" of these pigs with extremist bigoted beliefs. Free speech is great as long as you respect everyone elses right to it in equal measure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flook View Post
    There are unfortunately a few Countries throughout this world, that bear grievances over many thousands of years, this includes Israel. I know ISIS has nothing to do with that country, but, memories are long, families do not forget, but, here in the UK, along with our fellows in the US and many, many other countries, we have short memories (thank god). This horror must not be forgotten, we should use all our strengths and resources to totally eliminate these thugs, if necessary to use ultimate bombs to eradicate these guy's.

    Yes there will be some who will shout in horror at this, those who would whinge and so on, all is needed will be to point at Manchester, Paris, and many other cities whom have suffered at the hands of cowards.

    Sorry everyone if I sound strong about this, but fight these guys with what we have and they see us as week.
    this is what I meant when I said that terrorism can only generate fear and hate and I have to admit that I had the same thoughts.
    "putenza du gibbiuni!" dissi u sceccu quannu vitti u mari... ("what a big pool!" said the donkey when has seen the sea...) 

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    Elgin, Scotland ST404 is offline Volunteer Moderator - GT
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    Guido, I did understand what you were getting at, but when your granddaughter is caught up in it, it becomes a little personal.

    It's very difficult to think and act rationally when matters are so close to home. The thought that I may never have spoken to her again, is a great incentive to hate those responsible.

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    The world better rejoice that I'm not the president or have any power. There would be some countries conspicuous missing from the next version of the global map.

    Pat so glad your granddaughter is okay.

    I hope the left wingers have learned the reality of life today.

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    notacop is offline The original Schwartz Wald Troll
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    Seems we'd like to take our anger out on the perpetrators, maybe their living family members. Maybe send them, as a society, back a couple thousand years with no chance of modern travel or weapons.
    Unfortunately that would make us equal to the worst of their society.

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    I'm okay with that. If it saves one of our teenage girls life I'm totally okay with that. Whatever it takes to end this. Whatever and whoever it takes.

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    Condolences to the victims and their families. Prayers offered.

  19. #15
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    pat, as I said I can understand your point of view, because I thought the same things, but I must also admit that what notacop says is absolutely true.
    ... there must be a way to stop all this hate, but I don't really know which one is.
    "putenza du gibbiuni!" dissi u sceccu quannu vitti u mari... ("what a big pool!" said the donkey when has seen the sea...) 

  20. #16
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    Unfortunately these guy's do not think like us. The guy who done this was born here in England, brought up in a school here, his parents were refugees from Libya, and had moved back there according to the news here. People like him are groomed to believe certain things, to think their family's are instruments to be used as decoy's. They say they are meeting up with friends or religious studies or such like, all innocent until they act.

    Even those guy's in ISIS, which is a recent happening, have been deep rooted converted ad wholly believe what they do is the right thing, this is dangerous, this is repulsive behavior to us in the west, even to some in the east. They do not care about families, all they care about is creating mayhem, striking at soft targets, and the Manchester bombing was the soft underbelly target. Children to young adults 8 - 18.

    I believe their heart should be attacked with true death arsenals, some may say that would bring us down to their level, hey there wake up, we have tried the nicely nicely way, we are helping to fight these buggers on the ground, but look at what happens. So strike back, teach our children from an early age the ways to avoid being groomed, by either the internet, family members who hide themselves behind mental curtains, Religious believes in revenge and retribution.

    The majority of this nation which includes many faiths now and religious believes, are abhorrent of this attack, while this is still fresh in the memory we should unite and look to way's of avoidance. We should not just rely on the security of our country to help keep these guy's and girls at bay, we should look at ourselves, our families, see if anyone is behaving in any unusual way, and report them. It will be painful to act this way, but the pain in a family would be far greater in the knowledge that, that particular family member was responsible for such an attack.

    Unfortunately, we wont go down any of these paths, the same again will happen unfortunately, security will be high and very very stringent

    Pat, I hope this wont have a lasting effect on your granddaughter in later life, I know from personal experience, some things that happen to you early in life may have an affect and dominate ones life at some point. You cannot forgive, I would not ever forgive, but try not to let this cloud your or your families judgment against our Muslim neighbors, I bet they are just as shocked and shaken.

    My regards to all my F8 friends here, where ever in the world you live, your religion etc.

    Be safe, and may your god go with you.

    Fllok
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  21. #17
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    The only recourse at this point to ensure national security:

    No more immigration from muslim countries. Period

    If you leave to go to one of those countries you cannot be allowed to return (in a good many instances its those who spend time in their homeland who come back radicalized).

    shut down any mosque where the clerics are under suspicion.

    Deport all those who are not full citizens.

    intercept all communications from muslim citizens.

    Arrest any who attempt to enforce sharia law

    Arrest the parents for complicity regardless of hard evidence (you know what your kid is up to).

    Ensure no muslim can obtain a position of authority.

    Encourage citizens to report any off behavior (yes it will turn into a witch-hunt: f'ck it) by offering rewards that lead to arrest or exile.

    make it illegal to wear any traditional clothing, as this can ostensibly hide identity or weapons.

    take immediate military activity with regards to any town in the homeland any known perpetrator has visited.

    and unofficially turn your back to any reasonable vigilante behavior.

    Other then simply rounding all of them up and sending them back to the mother land this is the only thing that would have a chance at working. some of you will say this will only foment anger and fan the fumes. Before you even start thinking that come to the realization they already want you to die or to be subjugated by their rules. Do you think it's even possible to make them hate you more? But there are nice ones, what about them Anthony? Well, two things; A) they should have nothing to worry about, other than feeling uncomfortable (tough sh*t), and B) no one is innocent. Every one catches wind who is a trouble maker in their community, so start turning them in or face the consequences. Do you think there's one church parishioner in NY who does not know who the maffia guys are in the parish? These "innocent" f'ckers know who the bad seeds are. Not one of them ever goes to the authorizes, ergo there are no innocents.

  22. #18
    Elgin, Scotland ST404 is offline Volunteer Moderator - GT
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    Now that we are leaving Europe and that God awful European Court of Injustice, I dont see any reason why the UK cannot restore the death penalty for treason and murder.

    Granted you can't hang someone who is already dead, but his/ her accomplices would be fair game. All you would have to prove was that they plotted against the state.

    Some of the younger ones might think twice about being on the periphery of action if they were going to meet their maker on our terms.

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  24. #19
    notacop is offline The original Schwartz Wald Troll
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    I heard of a practice in some part of the world that a person would be convicted they would be given a place to serve that their sentence. If they left that place before their sentence was up, a relative, say their mother of father or son, would be then forced to serve the rest of the sentence.
    Now if you knew that when you blew yourself up and killed some others, your parents or off spring would serve your sentence inabstencia, you might think twice about it?

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    That's what I"m talking about. Make it clear Mama Babaganush will be hung or packed away somewhere in a work camp and maybe the idiot son will think twice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tarless View Post
    That's what I"m talking about. Make it clear Mama Babaganush will be hung or packed away somewhere in a work camp and maybe the idiot son will think twice.
    maybe ... but this probably works if you kill for money, if you see the act of killing and the martyrdom like the best thing that you can do to serve the god's will, you could also think that it's a gift that you're leaving to your parents, a sort of destiny to a perpetual martyrdom wanted by your god for all your family.
    any war made in the name of god is an aberration, you cannot find a sense in that. maybe this is one of the worst war in the name of god ever fought because it uses the terrorist acts, it strikes innocent people, not who is fighting for his own god. it's only abject violence because you know that you can't kill all the infidels. as notacop pointed, in the middleage peoples abjured their faith (and it was difficult even at that time to subdue an entire population), not in the 21st century.
    "putenza du gibbiuni!" dissi u sceccu quannu vitti u mari... ("what a big pool!" said the donkey when has seen the sea...) 

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    Okay then Guido, f'ck it. Complete Extermination is the only recourse then if you don' think that will work.
    I however, think it would have some impact. Certainly mama might turn her sun in if she thinks she's going to be swinging from a tree.

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    Elgin, Scotland ST404 is offline Volunteer Moderator - GT
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    I don't think we need to exterminate a complete race of people. Keeping them out of the country and repatriating those already here who are under observation or have committed offences would suffice.

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  32. #24
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    which goes back to my post #17.

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    I think that all the measures you're talking about are too drastic and often absolutely useless. don't forget that all the last terrorist attacks were made by english or european citizen, born, grown and educated in the western society. but our society accepts the freedom of worship. even in the islamic world this freedom is usually well accepted... it's one of biggest conquest of the civilised human kind. muslims are everywhere, as the catholics and the minor religions (in the meaning of lesser diffusion) believers. muslims are not bad people only because they believe in another god than the ours, sure some of them are very dangerous, but they are a very small minority. the problem is that the western world is not enough prepared to contrast this minority that acts out of any reasonable scheme. we must find a solution, but we cannot disclaims our principles of freedom and equality or we will loose this horrible war that we didn't wanted.
    after that I can understand and respect your reaction. the first thing I've thought when I've read of this terrorist attack was "we should raze la mecca, we cannot tolerate any more the violence against our children and our families", but I know that this is not the solution.
    "putenza du gibbiuni!" dissi u sceccu quannu vitti u mari... ("what a big pool!" said the donkey when has seen the sea...) 

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    It is not hard at all to understand these kinds of acts. These zealots believe that they are in possession of the one and only true divine word. They are enlightened, in their minds, about that which is good and that which is evil. They will never rest until every person in every corner of the earth professes allegiance to the same word and accepts that which is good according to divine word. Any who refuse to accept the goodness of the divine word, as it is written, shall be killed. And when they are killed, that is good, because the side of evil has been reduced. Any believers who are killed while killing or attempting to kill unbelievers, heretics, infidels, and apostates in order to advance the cause of good, shall become a divine martyr and shall be rewarded in the certainty that is the afterlife.

    There is no room for compromise with, coexistence with, or tolerance of such a world view. This noxious ideology was originally spread by the sword, continues to be perpetuated and expanded by the sword, and can only be eradicated from the face of the earth by the sword.

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  37. #27
    Elgin, Scotland ST404 is offline Volunteer Moderator - GT
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    Not all Muslims are terrorists, that is true......

    however......

    Nearly all terrorists are Muslims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guidoveloce View Post
    I think that all the measures you're talking about are too drastic and often absolutely useless. don't forget that all the last terrorist attacks were made by english or european citizen, born, grown and educated in the western society. but our society accepts the freedom of worship. even in the islamic world this freedom is usually well accepted... it's one of biggest conquest of the civilised human kind. muslims are everywhere, as the catholics and the minor religions (in the meaning of lesser diffusion) believers. muslims are not bad people only because they believe in another god than the ours, sure some of them are very dangerous, but they are a very small minority. the problem is that the western world is not enough prepared to contrast this minority that acts out of any reasonable scheme. we must find a solution, but we cannot disclaims our principles of freedom and equality or we will loose this horrible war that we didn't wanted.
    after that I can understand and respect your reaction. the first thing I've thought when I've read of this terrorist attack was "we should raze la mecca, we cannot tolerate any more the violence against our children and our families", but I know that this is not the solution.
    I disagree. Firstly not letting anyone else in at this point eliminates future domestic born terrorists. No more refugees. Secondly, shutting down Mosques that may be funding terrorist groups or preaching subversive messages would eliminate the "recruiters." Yes sedition is illegal. It can't hide behind religion. Thirdly, it would just be plain fun to f'ck with them Fourthly, putting moslems under intense scrutiny would provide necessary intel to be prepared for these acts. Banning traveling to and from a know hotbed is helpful to negate training. And lastly, punishing the family for complicity would make them think twice. And yes, of course deport anyone who is not currently a citizen.

    THis isn't Muslims being the Majority Guido and the rest of the world being the minority because they are the largest practiced religion. This is people with democratic values being the majority (with religion having nothing to do with "us") against the minority which are people adhering to religious customers and ideology counter to the other 5 billion people.

    Hey razing Mecca ain't a bad idea

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    And if anyone is fooled into thinking these people aren't aren't into global conquest just ask Armenians who had family slaughtered by the Turks, Greek cypriots who had their Island seized and muslimized, the destruction of ancient Jewish structures in Jerusalem because these guys think they were ancient Israel, the slaughter of Kurds who actually are moderates, destruction of Buddhist statues in Afganistan.
    Make a cartoon of Muhammad? Oh, that's justifiable grounds for the death sentence. Just ask the relatives of Vincent Van Gogh. Oh wait you can't: his last living relative was stabbed to death by a muslem in his home town for making a cartoon.

    And you really think it's the minority making all the trouble huh? I'll remember to tell the Coptic family in Jersey city who were executed in their home for being Christian living in a muslem building (that got very little press outside this area).

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    Many if not most of the billions who aren't currently active terrorists:

    a) demand continued social tolerance of their ideology
    b) fail to condemn the individual perpetrators of terror
    c) fail to condemn their heinous acts
    d) fail to condemn their intentions and motivations
    e) fail to express sympathy for the victims
    f) inwardly support the act and the deaths and pray for the souls of the martyrs
    g) outwardly cheer the act and the deaths and call for more

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    Being half Italian American I can repeat this joke by Richard Pryor: "there are two types of Italians, those that are in the mob and those that know someone in the mob." I always laughed at that joke because in the NY area, it was true back in those days. Get the analogy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tarless View Post
    I disagree. Firstly not letting anyone else in at this point eliminates future domestic born terrorists. No more refugees. Secondly, shutting down Mosques that may be funding terrorist groups or preaching subversive messages would eliminate the "recruiters." Yes sedition is illegal. It can't hide behind religion. Thirdly, it would just be plain fun to f'ck with them Fourthly, putting moslems under intense scrutiny would provide necessary intel to be prepared for these acts. Banning traveling to and from a know hotbed is helpful to negate training. And lastly, punishing the family for complicity would make them think twice. And yes, of course deport anyone who is not currently a citizen.

    THis isn't Muslims being the Majority Guido and the rest of the world being the minority because they are the largest practiced religion. This is people with democratic values being the majority (with religion having nothing to do with "us") against the minority which are people adhering to religious customers and ideology counter to the other 5 billion people.

    Hey razing Mecca ain't a bad idea
    meanwhile your president sells bombs and weapons to muslim... ok to the rich and moderate muslims, but muslims. maybe there is something that I don't understand in all this.
    anthony, be practical. the islam is probably the most widespread religion in the world... do you really want to cut off any trade with half of the world? because what you say leads to that. believe me, it's impossible.
    then, not all muslims are fighting a jihad. the war of terrorists is often also against them. as you said, this is a war against the freedom values (not democratic values, but freedom values), wherever in the world, fought by few people acting in a despicable way. it's very dangerous and we must find a way to fight these people, but I don't think that what you suggest can be an effectual solution to the problem. it's only my opinion, I could be wrong.
    "putenza du gibbiuni!" dissi u sceccu quannu vitti u mari... ("what a big pool!" said the donkey when has seen the sea...) 

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    I'm sorry, but I think that sometimes I have to moderate our discussions and now I think that it's time to be back to the topic, our argument is going beyond the meaning of this thread which is to express our sadness for what happened in manchester.
    my apologies, I'm the first who need to be moderated.
    "putenza du gibbiuni!" dissi u sceccu quannu vitti u mari... ("what a big pool!" said the donkey when has seen the sea...) 

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    Guido these people don't contribute much to my economy. Some rich sheik's in Saudi maybe but that's about it. We don't kneed them.
    What did the Daleks always used to say?

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    Point well taken, Guido. But many of us are tired of the increasingly frequent terror events, followed by tears and sadness, and no corrective action.

    This "new normal" needs to end. It's time to stop the killing and the maiming.

    Peace is what you get when the other side gives up. I don't want the West to be the other side.

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    notacop is offline The original Schwartz Wald Troll
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    "Nearly all terrorists are Muslims."

    Not necessarily, Timothy McVey and the a few other white pieces of shit come to mind. It's an unfortunate mindset that weak brains elect to follow.
    Heck we even have a few black folk in this country that have chosen to wage war on the whites due to discrimination.
    As a worldly society we have some weaknesses that set these folks off.
    The answers to these difficulties are difficult to divine.
    In the mean time the future thinkers are devising plans for other world population. Dreamers.

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    Nota, Mckvey was over 20 years ago. That argument's growing old. One or two American nutjobs doesn't negate Pats assertion. Right NOW, not 50 years ago, most terrorists are factually muslim. btw, serial killers are not terrorists, it might be splitting hairs, but they are not technically terrorists. Lets also not forget the other non terror atrocities these nice refugees commit such as raping the young women of germany and sweden. They DO NOT FIT into our society, period!

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    notacop is offline The original Schwartz Wald Troll
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    Oh, we gots all sorts of white nut cases doing in black people. Latest was a black man about to graduate from college, stabbed by some white supremacist.
    It's not just a nut-so Muslim doing in a crowd of folks, it's anyone feeling superior or oppressed that take their frustration out on the innocent.
    Perhaps like genius Trump said, we need a good government closure, maybe what we need is a good comet strike to redirect the addled thinking in the world.
    Timmy may not have been a terrorist in your thinking but his actions were against the government, like the Muslim terrorists you want to find despicable today.
    Anyone taking his personal vendetta out on the innocent is a terrorist.
    oh. I agree they don't fit into our society, they don't fit into any civilized society. I just don't get crazy over the the fact that they are from the middle east.
    With some 7.5 billion people infesting the earth, there are more than enough whack-os to cause harm.

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    My condolences to the families of those killed in the U.K. last night. So difficult to understand the motives of the Islamic State. Just as interesting, the justification of killing innocents in the name of God. Such twisted logic! I'm not done thinking about this and I hope that western and Muslim led countries are not done thinking about it either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notacop View Post
    Oh, we gots all sorts of white nut cases doing in black people. Latest was a black man about to graduate from college, stabbed by some white supremacist.
    It's not just a nut-so Muslim doing in a crowd of folks, it's anyone feeling superior or oppressed that take their frustration out on the innocent.
    Perhaps like genius Trump said, we need a good government closure, maybe what we need is a good comet strike to redirect the addled thinking in the world.
    Timmy may not have been a terrorist in your thinking but his actions were against the government, like the Muslim terrorists you want to find despicable today.
    Anyone taking his personal vendetta out on the innocent is a terrorist.
    oh. I agree they don't fit into our society, they don't fit into any civilized society. I just don't get crazy over the the fact that they are from the middle east.
    With some 7.5 billion people infesting the earth, there are more than enough whack-os to cause harm.
    Nota all sort of nut jobs is not the same as an entire "race" of people ( I could give a good goddam where they're from) trying to annihilate all you stand for. What's all this whites killing black sh*t? that's completely a different issue, and frankly a good number of white people are murdered ever year by black people so don't give me this old hippy sh*t. This is also a completely seperate topic. One billion people want the other 5-6 billion dead or on their knees. Do you get this? Are you fully absorbing this?

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    entire "race" of people
    exaggerated!
    "putenza du gibbiuni!" dissi u sceccu quannu vitti u mari... ("what a big pool!" said the donkey when has seen the sea...) 

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    Quote Originally Posted by guidoveloce View Post
    exaggerated!
    come to NY and walk through an arab neighborhood before you talk sh*t. And when was Sicilia last attacked? How many friends did you lose in those two big buildings???

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    Elgin, Scotland ST404 is offline Volunteer Moderator - GT
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    Guys, can we not at least be civil with each other.

    I have reason more than most on here to be angry over the events in Manchester and I have expressed my views. I've also listened to the views of others, even those that I don't fully agree with. But they are the views of friends not enemies, so let's accept them for that.

    I doubt I will ever get over the anger that someone tried to murder my granddaughter in the name of a religion, but I'm not willing to fall out with anyone on this forum over it.

    So my plea is, let us at least be polite with each other.

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    NOt to one up you Pat but I lost friends and cousins in that attack.
    However, I agree with the code of civility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tarless View Post
    come to NY and walk through an arab neighborhood before you talk sh*t. And when was Sicilia last attacked? How many friends did you lose in those two big buildings???
    no, we've not been attacked by arabs in the last ten or twelve centuries, but arabs lives very close to us, and here there are lots of arabs... believe me, they are not dangerous, are just persons like us. yours seems to be a personal revenge and I can understand that, and I'm sorry, but maybe if you are not scared of them, if you don't let the hate overwhelm your mind, something could go better with your arab neighbours. as pat said, this is my opinion, we are discussing and different opinions should open our mind not generate resentment.

    I want to tell you a story. I've not friends killed by terrorists, but two of our family friends, boris giuliano and ninni cassarà, two chiefs of police like my father, were killed by mafia. when they were killed I was a child and hated all the people living in those districts with a high mafia density, but then... well, here you must live close to a lot of people who have something to do with mafia, but I know that most of them wouldn't kill anyone and I also have understood that what they do is the only thing they can do for living, but they are not really dangerous, despicable, sure, but not really dangerous. mafia killers are only few, very few of the people who live according to the mafia rules, the worst of them, abject persons... if you accept that most of the mafia members or conniving haven't had an alternative in their life, you can't hate them, but hate the system that forces them to the membership and connivance. and I still hate from the bottom of my heart the few people who kill in the name of mafia.
    the comprehension is the price of every cohabitation and believe me is not a price so high to pay.

    p.s. for the less that history can teach us, the hate against an entire race can lead to the genocide... do you remember what the cousin adolf did?
    "putenza du gibbiuni!" dissi u sceccu quannu vitti u mari... ("what a big pool!" said the donkey when has seen the sea...) 

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    Listening to the news this morning awakened my thoughts to how ISIS came about.

    Basically my thoughts as well as the news cast was about Gadavi who was considered to be a tyrant, and some groups in Libya fought against him. UK and France (according to the news) Bombed Libya, and helped to rid of Gadafi. Unfortunately UK and France did not leave any serious form of governing body in Libya, so groups like ISIS came together again from the news.

    So, the result of that happening is what we have recently seen here in the UK, France and other Countries. If Libya was not bombed there might well have been no ISIS, or if a decent government had been set up with help from UK and France.

    However, we have what we have. A man of UK citizenship became converted to a biased form of the Muslim religion, who see parts of the western way of life as an obscenity, and this obscenity must be eradicated, in not in whole but in part. There are many others out there with the same thoughts and process, who are being converted.

    One of the most unfortunate things about all this, our good friends the Italians are taking in Refugees from Libya, and some belong to ISIS, they do not have signs on there heads saying this, but it is a fact. The Italian Government has decided to take in these refugees at a huge cost, and it shows they have heart not to turn them away from certain death.

    Trying to find those responsible for sending these refugees out in poor condition boats, is like finding a needle in a field. But, some way has to done to stop this part of the cycle. Turn it off like a tap, return all refugees back (repatriation), whether they like it or not.

    The rest that have settled here in the UK or in France, even Italy and other countries, should accept that adopted countries way of life and accept the differences, whether they like it or not, if not, then return to there own country of origin where they can accept that way of life.

    This is not easy or by any means simple, if it was that simple I believe it would have been done, if it can be done and it is about cost, I ask this, look at Manchester, is it worth the cost of the loss of life, look to France, in particular Paris, is it worth the cost of life. Is it worth the cost of, pain, misery etc.

    Religious believes are powerful, stronger than politics. And there are those who stand in the background and stir things up, all due to religious believes. Just to talk about peace is just talk, to form a plan to seak out those who are responsible for sending out the boat people, who are causing to stir up young men and women to such violence and so forth, this surly must be the way to go.

    May your god go with you my friends, may you find piece in your hearts.

    Flook
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    in truth, the problem is not the refugees. no-one of the terrorists who have done attacks in the last years was a refugee. the problem of refugees is only an economic problem. every day an incredible number of refugees lands in sicily (thousands every day). the italian government closes these refugees in reception centres, the cost of each refugee closed in one of these centres is about 35 € per day. they must stay there for about two years (in conditions like if they were in jail) before to be repatriated, so you can immagine how much a refugee costs to us. this is crazy, because no-one of them want to stay in italy where there is not work, they want to go to germany, holland or to some other country of the northern europe, where they can find a job. it's more crazy if you think that in italy a disability pension is less than 300 € per month and the social pension is 500 € (for those who are 65 y.o. and don't work or are retired), but a refugee costs about 1000 € per month. all that the refugees want is to work. obviously among thousands and thousands of refugees there can be a terrorist hidden, but as we know it happened only on time, when the terrorist responsible of the bataclan attack in paris came back in europe (he was already been in europe, using the normal channels with a visa) hidden among the refugees arrived in europe through turkey.
    apparently the italian government is not able to solve the problem of the refugees and the european government doesn't give a real help to our government. but the libyan authorities are surely responsible of the problem of the refugees, they don't do anything to stop this traffic of humans held by the libyan organised crime.

    but there is another problem, every day we have news of the wreck of one or more of the ships in terrible conditions used by refugees with tens, if not hundreds of dead, many of them are children. maybe you don't know that the day after the manchester attack there were 34 dead, most of them were children, in the canal of sicily. their only guilt was the hunger.
    "putenza du gibbiuni!" dissi u sceccu quannu vitti u mari... ("what a big pool!" said the donkey when has seen the sea...) 

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    Thanks for pointing this out Guido. The issue with terrorism and terrorists, is separate from the issue with refugees. The fact that both groups are highly represented by Muslims, paints a picture with an overly broad brush. There is nationalist fervor running high around the world, with hatred and isolationist thought building. This is exactly what the ISIS extremists want.

    Contrary to what some profess, I believe there is no easy answer. Ours is a country that was initially built upon religious freedom and has long honored diversity. And, it is truly a melting pot. I'm a mutt myself.... German and English heritage (and likely some that I'm not aware of), and a devoted agnostic. Yet, I feel comfortable in my country. I take my lot in life for granted, but try occasionally to remind myself, how truly fortunate I am to have been born in a wealthy country with so many opportunities for success, not available to most around the world. I cannot condemn a refugee for wanting to leave their country of origin, in order to make a better life for themselves or their family. If I had been born in Somalia, I might at this point be plotting an exit myself.

    What I do struggle with, is the terrorist activities of ISIS. WTF? It will require strategies greater than my simple mind can perceive, in order to stop this madness. Misdirected anger is playing right into their hands and will do nothing to stop this extremist group. I think most people understand that this is a minority group, but they would love for westerners to have hate in their hearts for all Muslims, so that they can prove how evil all non-Muslims really are.

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    What I have said is a perceived view of most of the white population here in the UK. Guido has a better understanding of this side of things than the rest of us.

    Some refugees I am given to understand, actually land on the Italian coast, and are not picked up by any authorities. These make there way over land to northern Europe, and want to come to England, (land of milk and honey). Huh we should be so lucky eh.
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