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  1. #1
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    I thought I would start a thread listing various published F750/850GS reviews that we come across. I just found two print magazine reviews yesterday. Unfortunately, so far, these reviews seem to be not much more than a regurgitating of BMW press releases, specifications and factory photos:

    The Spring 2018 issue of "The Independent" (yeah, right ) BMW Motorcycle Magazine, ($6.95 US) contains a colorful and reasonably detailed 6-page article featuring the two new BMW models. A lot of specifications are provided, along with an engine cutaway, which shows that the engine design is very conventional and the wonderful and almost unique third connecting rod balancer and the not-quite dry sump are gone, replaced by a real dry sump housed in the engine case, along with the fuel tank moved back to the usual position, so as to provide an "improved center of gravity" - along with requiring the removal of a tank bag in order to gas-up. The bikes have a odd looking pressed-steel main frame that reminds me of one from a 1930's BMW. Both models are longer than the F700/800GS versions, at 61.4 and 62.7 inches, respectively. Base (before adding farkles) weight has been increased to 494 and 505 pounds. Fuel tank capacity has shrunk to 4 gallons and fuel mileage has dropped to 57 (US) mpg. Top speed is 118 mph for the F750GS and 125 mph for the F850GS. 0-60 mph acceleration times are 4.1 seconds for the F750GS and 3.8 seconds for the F850GS. My guess is that these are all published BMW figures and were not measured by the magazine staff. The article claims that both bikes will be available at dealers this March (so much for that prediction ) and an F850R roadster version is being predicted to arrive later as a 2019 model. Prices are given as "from $10,195" for the F750GS and "from $12,895" for the F850GS. Of course, we all know that the initial "launch models" will be loaded with factory accessories, such as the $600 TFT display, which will substantially increase the price for early adopters of the new bikes. No word about a GT version, though.

    The May issue of the UK publication Bike ($9.95 US - and arriving a month late), contains a three page spread on the F750GS and F850GS, which is definitely just a compiling of BMW press releases and photos of the two bikes. Availability in the UK is listed as being May 12. Prices are given as 7950 pounds for the base F750GS model and 9200 pounds for the "sport" model. Prices for the F850GS are 9400 pounds for the base model and 10,650 pounds for the "sport" version. The article is followed by a full-page ad for the 4,199 pound Royal Enfield Himalayan. Sort of an interesting contrast in vehicles.
    Last edited by Richard230; 05-16-18 at 04:28 PM.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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    I'm wondering what changes will be made to the RS. If the horsepower figures remain true to the relative differences of the current GS models, the F850GS went from 85 to 95 hp. If the GT is ever updated, I would expect the horsepower would go from 90 hp to 100 hp or slightly more. Add to that the cruise control that some websites are saying the new F850GS has and the throttle and riding modes...and the difference between an F850GT and a R1200RS is very slim.

    So I just wonder what is in the corporate BMW plans???

    Chris
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
    IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    I'm wondering what changes will be made to the RS. If the horsepower figures remain true to the relative differences of the current GS models, the F850GS went from 85 to 95 hp. If the GT is ever updated, I would expect the horsepower would go from 90 hp to 100 hp or slightly more. Add to that the cruise control that some websites are saying the new F850GS has and the throttle and riding modes...and the difference between an F850GT and a R1200RS is very slim.

    So I just wonder what is in the corporate BMW plans???

    Chris
    I have never been very good at figuring out Der Korporate plans. They certainly do things differently than I would. Both the F800GT and the R1200RS apparently are not very good sellers for BMW. So I am not putting any money on when, or if, they are upgraded and hit the market. On the other hand, it appears that BMW has a kindness in their black heart for the "R" roadsters, so maybe after roadsters are introduced they will follow with an F850GT and an R1250RS, after throwing some plastic on the R versions, and shove those models out the factory door too.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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    I'm not putting any money on when, or if, they'll upgrade either model, though it does seem like a smart move to me.

    For that matter, I'm not putting any money down on either one. My current F800GT is perfect for me. I may look at another bike, but it is only with casual interest.

    Chris
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
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    I'm waiting for BMW to upgrade these puny engines to 1200's and be done with it.

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    I have been reading the BMW magazine more closely today and came upon the editorial page, where the editor, Sandy Cohen (gee, that name sounds like of familiar), says that the G750/850 engines are now being made by Loncin in China, instead of by Rotax in Austria, which is where the F800-series engines were manufactured. (Loncin manufactured the G650GS single-cylinder engines for BMW.) Loncin will also be manufacturing the entire new BMW C400X scooter, not just the engine. Another piece of news mentioned by the editor is that the new F750/850GS's pressed-steel frame weighs 26 pounds more than the frame of the F700/800GS models! What is up with that?

    It looks like the F850GS could get really expensive when you start ordering factory upgrade farkles. Such as the $600 6.5" color TFT display, BMW Navigation device ($800 on the WC boxers), full LED headlight, knobby tires, luggage (I bet that right saddle bag won't carry much), keyless ignition, cruise control, tire pressure monitor, Emergency call system, Gear Shift Assistant Pro (clutchless shifting), additional engine modes (dynamic, enduro, enduro pro) in addition to the standard road and rain modes and Dynamic ESA (so-called "semi-active computer controlled suspension made by Sachs). I don't even want to think what all of those factory accessories would cost if you piled them on an F850GS - or how heavy the bike would be with all of them installed.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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    Had a good poke around both of the new F series bikes earlier this week - not impressed.

    My F8GS will be staying put for a good while yet.

    SteveT


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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveT View Post

    Had a good poke around both of the new F series bikes earlier this week - not impressed.

    My F8GS will be staying put for a good while yet.

    SteveT

    What are they like to ride compared with your current GS?
    R1200R-LC ​Exclusive in Thunder Grey with Touring Pack. Formerly Graphitane F800ST 04/2007. I rarely visit the forum these days ... 

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    notacop is offline The original Schwartz Wald Troll
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    "F750/850GS's pressed-steel frame "

    Oh, like the old CB 150's from Honda. Leading link front end to. Progress!

    Actually I have one of the newer 2013 G650GS and it's still OK after 18K miles. I don't get out much no mo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokkybear View Post
    What are they like to ride compared with your current GS?
    Didn't get to ride the bike - I was there to pick up a hire bike to ride behind a pals funeral cortege on his last journey

    But when I do get to ride the 850, I will let my thoughts be known

    SteveT


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    Does anyone had the chance for a test-drive of the F750 - 850GS?
    My son is very nuts for this model....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    I'm wondering what changes will be made to the RS. If the horsepower figures remain true to the relative differences of the current GS models, the F850GS went from 85 to 95 hp. If the GT is ever updated, I would expect the horsepower would go from 90 hp to 100 hp or slightly more. Add to that the cruise control that some websites are saying the new F850GS has and the throttle and riding modes...and the difference between an F850GT and a R1200RS is very slim.

    So I just wonder what is in the corporate BMW plans???

    Chris
    I just downloaded the 2018 sales figures of motorcycles here in the Netherlands:
    The big runner for BMW is the R1200GS (of course), followed by the R1200RT, together more than 75% of BMW Motorrad sales....
    F800GS sales is less than 10% of the R1200GS number... So, if BMW has taken the trouble to upgrade the F800GS with such low sales numbers, why not do the same for the GT? The engine has been developed, most of the electronics and other stuff can be copied...

    2013 F800GT Valencia Orange 

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankV View Post
    I just downloaded the 2018 sales figures of motorcycles here in the Netherlands:
    The big runner for BMW is the R1200GS (of course), followed by the R1200RT, together more than 75% of BMW Motorrad sales....
    F800GS sales is less than 10% of the R1200GS number... So, if BMW has taken the trouble to upgrade the F800GS with such low sales numbers, why not do the same for the GT? The engine has been developed, most of the electronics and other stuff can be copied...
    Are you trying to understand BMW's marketing philosophy? You will go crazy doing that.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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  22. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankV View Post
    I just downloaded the 2018 sales figures of motorcycles here in the Netherlands:
    The big runner for BMW is the R1200GS (of course), followed by the R1200RT, together more than 75% of BMW Motorrad sales....
    F800GS sales is less than 10% of the R1200GS number... So, if BMW has taken the trouble to upgrade the F800GS with such low sales numbers, why not do the same for the GT? The engine has been developed, most of the electronics and other stuff can be copied...
    I suspect BMW will drop the GT as it is designed right now as a "sport-touring" bike and move to an adventure-touring bike like the 9cento.



    You're right...they won't waste the development of the new engine, etc. But they'll move it onto a new platform and follow the S1000XR design...an adventure bike that is designed for the street, not the trail. And because they will tack on the "touring" nomenclature...it must be great for riding across the USA.

    I'm wondering how they get any product differentiation though from one model to another. If they had kept the GT concept and made the updates...it would've been competing with the RS. If they make the jump over to style it after the S1000XR...it'll be very close in functionality to the big brother. And the S1000XR doesn't have the boxer engine to draw the loyalists to it. Hmm... it will make if fun to sit back and watch what happens.

    In the meantime, I'll keep my GT.

    Chris
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
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    The January 2019 issue of Motorcycle Consumer News contains a six-page article describing their testing and comparison of both the 2019 F750GS and the 2019 F850GS. While I won't try to summarize the entire article, because it mostly contains a description of all of the new features and farkles that come on the new bikes, what I will do is to mention some things that caught my eye and that I found interesting.

    Only two versions of the bikes will be imported into NA. They will come with either the factory's "Select" or "Premium" packages. The 750, with the Select package will start at $12,795 or $13,845 with the Premium package and go up from there depending upon paint schemes and dealer-installed accessories, such as a center stand, comfort seat, low suspension, anti-theft alarm, sport muffler, etc. The same applies to the 850, which will start at $15,595 for the Select package and $16,645 for the Premium package. To that add special colors and delivery. If you want a "Base" model, it will have to be special ordered from the factory and will come with basic analog gauges and not the standard TFT display.

    None of the packages will include bags, engine guards, or other common farkles, which will have to be bought a la carte from your dealer or from the after-market.

    The statistic pages of the test were kind of shocking to me. The 750 weighed in at 526 pounds and the 850 porked out at 532 pounds. The 750 has a carrying capacity of 444 pounds, but only 359 pounds for the 850. Seat height of the 750 is 32.75 inches and for the 850, 34.75 inches. The 750 uses 87 octane fuel, but the 850 requires 91 octane fuel, even though both engines have the same 12.71 compression ratio.

    Now get this: The 750 made 72.88 hp on their dyno, between 7K and 9K rpm and 54.56 lb-ft of torque between 5K and 7K rpm. Fuel economy was listed as a low of 41 mpg and a high of 46 mpg, with an average of 43 mpg. Estimated range from the 4-gallon tank is only 172 miles. 0-60 mph took 3.77 seconds, while the 1/4 mile was covered in 12.57 seconds at 105.2 mph. RPM at 65 mph is 4000. Actual speed at an indicated 65 mph is 63 mph. Stopping distance from 60 mph was 123 feet.

    The 850 made 76.23 hp on their dyno, at 9K rpm and 51.93 lb-ft of torque between 4K and 7K rpm. Fuel economy was listed as a low of 44 mpg and a high of 47 mpg, with an average of 46 mpg. Estimated range from the 4-gallon tank is 184 miles. 0-60 mph took 3.79 seconds, while the 1/4 mile was covered in 12.61 seconds at 106.05 mph. RPM at 65 mph is 3,950. Actual speed at an indicated 65 mph is 63 mph. Stopping distance from 60 mph was 157 feet.

    The magazine says that the poor performance of the 850 was due to it's Metzeler Karoo 3 tires which knocked off 10 hp due to their poor traction on the street and I assume on the dyno. The 750 was said to come with Bridgestone Battlax tires, which they thought were overly "stiff".

    Another shocker was the 12K service, which will set you back $540 for labor and $300 for parts, for a total of $840, at a typical BMW shop rate of $130 an hour. The 6K "routine"service will set you back $210 for labor and $70 for parts, totaling $280.

    So the new bikes are neither cheap to buy or to maintain.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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  25. #16
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    I just finished reading the complete MCN article again. Much of it reads like it was written by the BMW advertising agency. You have to hunt for any derogatory comments. However, I did notice that, while proclaiming how wonderful it was to have the fuel tank now made out of real steel, instead of being plastic and located under the rear seat, it is now located in the "normal position" for a "better center of gravity". Then in a side bar, their expert off-road rider mentions that the bikes are very top heavy (probably due to that heavy steel fuel tank) and he would never ride off road without either another rider to help pick the bike up when it falls over (and he says it will) or at least a motorcycle jack to lever the bike off of the ground. He said it is way too heavy for one person to pick up off road without help.

    One thing that I missed not seeing in the article was a statement about how wonderful it is to have a chain-driven rear wheel instead of one of those flimsy rubber belts.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  26. #17
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    I noticed something like that when the original Yamaha FJ09 reviews came out. Only one reviewer made even the slightest comment about the snatchy throttle. Instead everyone focused on the wheelie potential and gave only passing mention to anything else. When I test rode the bike, I had the opportunity to take it out for as long as I wanted and wherever I wanted. I made it around the block and couldn't wait to get it back to the dealership. I really didn't like the bike at all. Now that the new Tracer GT replacement came out, you can read reviewers mentioning about how that aspect was changed and is much better now.

    For all the reasons the original F700/F800 GS models were improvements on everything else on the market, I think they are still better than the new models. It's a moot point for me, but I think BMW made changes to make changes and should've left everything the same as it was with upgrades only in the areas that were deficient. Redo the engine, but make it fit the old frame. Add an adjustable suspension. And leave the gas tank down low under the seat to keep the center of gravity low. There was little imagination in the new design. IMHO, it was another "me too" design. Just like everyone else. No risk of being different. And no differentiation to justify the higher costs of the new model.

    I wouldn't expect to see a belt on a GS model, but I would on a street bike. But I bet that won't happen.

    All the more reason to keep my current GT that fits me like a glove and does all I want it to do.

    Chris
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
    IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder

    John 14:6 

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  28. #18
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    Rider magazine in their February issue features a road test of the new 2019 BMW F850GS. Now these guys are not known for being the most critical of reviewers or the hardest riders. After riding both the 750 and 850 models at the press launch in Colorado, they rode an 850GS back to their offices in Southern California, a distance of 1,000 miles. Their article test results included gas mileage listed as a low of 40.9 mpg, a high of 48.4 mpg and an average of 43.6 mpg. Estimated range of the 4.0 gallon fuel tank is only 174 miles.

    They placed their 850GS on the Jett Tuning dyno and managed to achieve 85.2 HP at 8,900 rpm. Maximum torque was 55.6 lb-ft at 6,500 rpm. Apparently Rider didn't have an problem with the bike's tires cutting into the horsepower results on the dyno. Their F850GS, with its Premium and Rally style packages, plus a centerstand, had a MSRP of $17,095. Indicated RPM at 60 mph was 3,600 and the bike continues to be a real porker at a measured wet weight of 533 pounds.

    What they didn't care for was the weight, price, and soft, non-adjustable forks. They indicate that a comparison test with similar models will be happening later this year.

    My 2009 F650GS weighs 486 pounds, complete with centerstand, luggage rack and luggage rails, along with a few other minor accessories. Plus, it typically gets 55-60 mpg from its 4.4 gallon fuel tank, running on 87 octane fuel.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  29. #19
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    Now that I can post pictures again, perhaps you would like to see photos of the F750GS and F850GS that I took at my dealer last year.
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    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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