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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    Reports from a few places I've seen indicate the Tracer GT had vibration in the handlebars and foot pegs. The same complaint I've read about the F800GT.

    Chris
    And also the S1000XR. It must be another BMW "feature".
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.†

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by danham View Post
    If this %%$# forum would let me upload a pic,
    It's being fixed - since last July.
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  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    And also the S1000XR. It must be another BMW "feature".
    I just shake my head when people act like the only bike with handlebar vibration is the F800GT...

    Chris
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
    IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder

    John 14:6

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  7. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    I just shake my head when people act like the only bike with handlebar vibration is the F800GT...

    Chris
    That is why products like Grip Puppies continue to be sold in enough quantities each year to keep the company in business.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.†

  8. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    That is why products like Grip Puppies continue to be sold in enough quantities each year to keep the company in business.
    And if they sold them to BMW owners only, they'd fold like a cheap deck chair . . . .
    2013 F800GT Graphite Metallic
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  9. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoXer-1 View Post
    ...BSA 650 Lightning ... ah ... conflicted or no, you had what is to me one of the most beautiful motorcycles ever (especially if it was red with the chrome tank)...
    Dropbox to the rescue:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/13ey8mz380...0side.jpg?dl=0

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  10. #57
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    Just open your image. Right click on it and select something (depending on your browser) that says "Copy Image Address". Insert that between "[img]your link[/img]".

    Chris


    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    Reports from a few places I've seen indicate the Tracer GT had vibration in the handlebars and foot pegs. The same complaint I've read about the F800GT.

    Chris
    Nice review on the Yamaha Tracer GT.


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  13. #59
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    If I was looking to replace my F800GT with something else, I'd be looking hard at the Yamaha Tracer GT.

    I didn't like the predecessor, the FJ-09. But it appears like Yamaha has done a good job of fixing a lot of what I didn't like. What I will find interesting to read about, is the inevitable direct comparison there will be of the new BMW model and the Tracer GT. BMW even copied the styling of the Yamaha. So will they improve on a bike that is getting glowing reviews? Or will they have a higher priced alternative that is a second choice?

    Here is a good review from one of the funniest and most entertaining reviewers you will find on YouTube. If you're stuck in the house because of the weather, sit back and go through his reviews. He is entirely real. Nothing is held back.



    Chris
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
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    Thanks for sharing, that guy is entertaining. When the FJ-09 first came out it was a bike I considered to replace my V-Strom. I kept the V-Strom, it just never gave me a reason to replace it. I did get the GT this year, but I still have the V-Strom, it’ll be my back road long distance beater. This bike interests me, but with the GT, V-Strom, and a KLX in the garage, I feel like I have all my bases covered and have no need for something else. But we still have to look, don’t we?

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    Quote Originally Posted by danham View Post

    Beautiful bike.

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  17. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    I chuckle when people say they don't like the F800GT motor. It's all a matter of perspective. I started with a Suzuki 90cc bike in England back in 1984. My upgrade was a Honda CB125 twin. After a long break, I started riding again in 2006 with a Kymco 250cc scooter. I then upgraded a year later when my commute grew far longer to a Suzuki Burgman 400. Back in 2013, I picked up a left-over 2011 Honda NT700V, and that had the most horsepower I'd ever encountered at @60 hp. So when I rode the F800GT with 100 lbs less weight and 50% more horsepower...it was incredibly fast for me.

    And my car history is similar. Starting with my 66 VW Beetle with 50 hp, the next four cars after that all had less horsepower than my F800GT.

    I'm curious...you mentioned "I chose to take my '15 Bonnie instead of the F800GT, even though I got the F specifically for such touring, because I foresaw some significant issues on that particular ride that the F would have presented". What issues?

    Chris


    Chris -

    The issues that caused me to take the Bonneville on my recent New England trip instead of my F800GT were so unique that I doubt theyíd come into play on 99% of the road trips. And certainly I was being quite cautious in planning this trip (my first multi-day road trip in 26 years of riding ... Iíve led a sheltered life). Here was my reasoning:

    Iíve complained often about the spindly side-stand BMW puts on the F800GT, and how I think itís weakness is why the F800GT stands so upright on itís side-stand compared to other bikes Iíve had (my theory is it couldnít take the weight of the bike if tipped over further). The tall side-stand means Iíve stopped at many gas stations with slanted lots that I canít even put the side-stand down and Iíve had to flip around to face the opposite way to fill up. Well, this trip included a ride on the ferry across Lake Champlain and I was concerned that being so straight up and down when parked might mean the bike could tip over in choppy water. It didnít help that Iíd seen this video of a different model BMW on the ferry in choppy waters (watch what happens 27 seconds in):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAMGtFtHWDM

    Anyway, the day I got there we were dodging storms and the lake was pretty choppy. As a result they did not put the bikes at the bow where they normally do because of all the spray that lands there in poor weather (this was on the ferry Adirondack) - they put us below deck. And here the deck is not flat like at the bow, but in fact has quite a pronounced crown so the water can run off. The crown is enough that I would not have even been able to put the side-stand down on the BMW. I didnít even like the looks of how straight up-and-down the Bonneville was so I elected to stay below deck where I could lean against it should it tip. Several times the ferry rolled on a wave and I felt the weight of the Bonnie shift against me, and one time it was a big shift that had me leaning hard into it to keep it from tipping. Would it have tipped over? I canít say for sure, but it felt like it would. Coming back in calm weather and parked at the bow as usual there were no issues, and Iím sure the F800 would have been fine. And if theyíd parked the bikes on the left side below deck, where the crown would have had the bikes leaning INTO their side-stands, there would have been no issues either. The conditions just conspired to create a ďworst case scenarioĒ that day, and fortunately Iíd guessed right.

    The other issue was the destination - Mt. Washington. If you are familiar with the steep Auto Road that goes up it (it tops out at a 37% grade) you know the very narrow road has a speed limit of 20 miles per hour, but given the low-traction surface and tight curves you canít really even go that fast - I spent most of the climb doing 5-15 miles per hour in first gear. You need torque to pull you up that grade, and the F800 doesnít have it at low rpmís. Based on my experience with the bike Iíve found one has to drop down several gears and be spinning the motor at 4,000 rpmís to have enough torque to make it up steep hills on normal roads that arenít anywhere near as steep as Mt. Washington. And unless my math is off, 4,000 rpmís in first gear equates to something like 29 miles per hour ... in other words, you canít go fast enough to get into the meat of the torque curve on the tight turns of the Auto Road. One would be slipping the clutch most of the way, or one simply wouldnít make it up the mountain. The Bonneville motor, while making less peak torque and much less peak horsepower than the F800, actually makes more torque than the F800 does below 4200 rpmís, so given the speeds one has to go it pulled me up the mountain pretty well.

    Like I said, this ride was unique and circumstances would have conspired against the F800. On any other ride the F800 would no doubt be fine. But I was surprised at how well the Bonnie worked as a touring bike with a single rider (two-up rides call for the larger, roomier F800GT), which has me thinking the new Triumph Speed Twin with hard luggage would work very well IF a passenger can fit on it with hard luggage as well as one does on the F800.

    Jim

  18. #63
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    Speaking of overly long BMW side stands, they installed one of those on the R12R and R12RS models. Many owners are not happy with that design as some bikes have fallen over as they stand too upright and you have to be very careful where you park if there is any sort of crown or slope on the roadway or parking area. Even a stiff wind can blow them over. My suspicion is that BMW deliberately designed the side stand so that the bikes would be very upright in the showroom, which makes them easier for someone sitting on them to pull them up, making the bikes feel lighter in the showroom than they really are.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.†

  19. #64
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    I had a similar problem with my Honda NT700V. And that bike was another 100 lbs heavier. If it started going over, all you could do was to slow it down, not stop it. On the ferries I've been on, if the weather is rough, they offer places to tie-down the bikes so they won't fall. That, or I'd pivot the bike around on the sidestand (look for YouTube videos of how this is done), and turn it so you get a good angle.

    I didn't expect the reasoning that the bike didn't have enough torque till you got over 4000 rpms to be the reason you didn't take it though. That surprised me. I've actually been pleasantly surprised at the torque it has from the first test ride I had. It went up a grade that would've required a downshift on my previous bike. That's nothing like climbing Mt. Washington though. I've taken my bike up Mt. Baker to Artist Point though and that is steep. The switchbacks have a speed limit of 15 mph, though you'd be a fool to try taking them at 15. The only problem I could see, is if you're following a string of RVs, in which case I'd just drop back enough to keep from having to stop and go constantly.

    At 3500 rpms, you are up around 50 lb-ft of torque and the curve stays relatively flat.



    Chris
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    That could be Richard. I'm actually thinking about getting a used Ebay side-stand and having a welder cut it shorter and reweld it.

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    Having both it's easy for me to compare the two and, dyno results aside, the feel of the Bonnie is that of a much stronger motor at low rpm's compared to the BMW. Now by 5 grand the BMW is pulling really well and is definitely sweet and a boat-load of fun. It's at low rpm's where the Bonnie shines. You don't have to rev the Bonnie motor to get to the power.

    The Bonnie motor is making 40 foot-pounds of torque at only 2500 rpm and has a fat torque boost between 2500-3500, and that happens to be right where the bike likes to be in any gear. That graph for the F800 unfortunately doesn't even start until 3500 so we can't see what it's doing down low, but my "seat of the pants butt dyno" tells me it's because the torque is nearly non-existent below 3500. It's the under 3500 rpm torque where the Bonnie is so strong and really shines (in my opinion). Different strokes for different folks, of course, but in hilly country where I like to ride I'm always having to downshift multiple gears on the BMW to pull even moderate hills, whereas I just give the Bonnie a bit more throttle. On flat roads with sweeping curves give me the F800, but on hilly, more tightly-curving roads the Bonnie is the winner *for me*.

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  23. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    Speaking of overly long BMW side stands, they installed one of those on the R12R and R12RS models. Many owners are not happy with that design as some bikes have fallen over as they stand too upright and you have to be very careful where you park if there is any sort of crown or slope on the roadway or parking area. Even a stiff wind can blow them over. My suspicion is that BMW deliberately designed the side stand so that the bikes would be very upright in the showroom, which makes them easier for someone sitting on them to pull them up, making the bikes feel lighter in the showroom than they really are.
    If I suspect a problem with stability in a parking area, I use the Center Stand
    Sundog

  24. #68
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    I almost always use the center stand too, but I do need the side stand when initially getting off the bike.

    I totally understand the issue of a bike standing too upright on the side stand. But then I plan for it and park elsewhere.

    Chris
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
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  26. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    Speaking of overly long BMW side stands, they installed one of those on the R12R and R12RS models. Many owners are not happy with that design as some bikes have fallen over as they stand too upright and you have to be very careful where you park if there is any sort of crown or slope on the roadway or parking area. Even a stiff wind can blow them over. My suspicion is that BMW deliberately designed the side stand so that the bikes would be very upright in the showroom, which makes them easier for someone sitting on them to pull them up, making the bikes feel lighter in the showroom than they really are.
    My LC used to sit pretty upright, and I still take care how I park it, but like their seats I think BMW designed the side stnd for the long term. At 3+ years and 70,000+ km the angle of mine on the side stand is now quite conventional, the swivel bearing having Ďsettled iní. I suspect its only those who change bikes when the warranty runs out that continue to have a problem.
    R1200R-LC ​Exclusive in Thunder Grey with Touring Pack. Formerly Graphitane F800ST 04/2007. I rarely visit the forum these days ...†

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    I almost always use the center stand too, but I do need the side stand when initially getting off the bike.

    I totally understand the issue of a bike standing too upright on the side stand. But then I plan for it and park elsewhere.

    Chris

    I agree. There are some local places I know where taking the BMW will make for difficult parking because of how the parking lot leans. But when going to a strange place you can't plan for such things because you just don't know. Other times there isn't a practical option to park elsewhere. And with some places I've been a center stand wouldn't solve the issue because center stands aren't meant for parking on steeply-slanted surfaces either. It just depends on the lean of the lot.

    It bugs me because I never had to consider these issues with all my other bikes on their side-stands, yet it's a constant issue with the F800. I do like the idea of modifying an Ebay side-stand to let the bike lean over further, I just wonder if it would have to be strengthened with additional metal welded on because when it's leaned over further more weight is applied to the spindly stand.

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  29. #71
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    You can also simply ride the bike to a shop that does welding and have them cut off an inch or so, then weld back on the foot, maybe making it larger. If that's the only thing "wrong", there's an easy inexpensive fix.

    Chris
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
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    Keep in mind the side stand is made of cast iron, which is difficult (but not impossible) to weld.
    2013 BMW F800GT | 2015 BMW R1200RT | 2014 Honda CB1100 DLX | 2019 Honda Monkey

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    Chris's way is the easy way, but I figured if it all went wrong for some reason then having cut and ruined an Ebay stand would still leave me with my "good" side stand. I know little to nothing about welding, but I do know the material being welded can make a difference. The question would be, can it be welded AND will it retain adequate strength?

  32. #74
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    That's why you take it to a competent welder. They should be trained on how to work with just about anything.

    I'm thinking of a business that makes and installs trailer hitches. Those guys work with all kinds of metals and in all kinds of situations. They should be able to put something together for you with no problem at all, and maybe reinforce it, if that's your concern too.

    Chris
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    Hi Guys,

    This whole sidestand thing is quite wierd. My F800R sidestand is a little too short for my liking and adding a 6mm thick foot-enlarger just brings it closer to a length I'd be happy with.

    Surely BMW didn't use different sidestands across the R/GT/ST/S range.... or did they ?
    Regards,
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  34. #76
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    I think it depends on if you use synthetic or non-synthetic dino oil. As Grace Slick sang, one makes you larger and the other makes you small.

    I guess I should make an attempt at being just a little serious. Otherwise, I'd be accused of being notacop. Another variable would be if the suspension has been lowered at all. Lower the suspension, for instance by changing the front forks, and the bike will sit lower...and more upright. Same length sidestand. Just a different height for the bike.

    Chris
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    Based on part numbers BMW did indeed use different side-stands on it's models. I think the ST had two different ones because a lowered suspension was available and the regular-length side stand would have been way too tall.

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    Good idea on the trailer hitch welders. I may just go in a few places and talk to the guys and see what kind of vibe I get.

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  38. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mariner View Post
    Hi Guys,

    This whole sidestand thing is quite wierd. My F800R sidestand is a little too short for my liking and adding a 6mm thick foot-enlarger just brings it closer to a length I'd be happy with.

    Surely BMW didn't use different sidestands across the R/GT/ST/S range.... or did they ?
    Your R has different front suspension to the S/ST/GT, Mariner. You could easily check the parts fiche to see whether the sidestand part numbers are the same. (Most likely)
    R1200R-LC ​Exclusive in Thunder Grey with Touring Pack. Formerly Graphitane F800ST 04/2007. I rarely visit the forum these days ...†

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTM65 View Post
    So maybe 10 more HP, likely more weight, and chain drive. Hmmm, not anything that would tempt me away from my F800GT. No offense to BMW, but if I wanted chain drive I would already have a Tracer.
    A Tracer GT will most probably be my next bike.
    '08 F800ST Low†

  40. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kukopia View Post
    A Tracer GT will most probably be my next bike.
    By the time I sell my F8GT, the Tracer will probably be out of production !

    Ian
    2014 GT Orange. Just the comfort pack and heated grips - not into gizmos.

    "Pity the man who wasn't born in the Highlands and hears the pipes"

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  42. #82
    Right Hand Drive's Avatar
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    I like the look of this possible GT replacement. But if BMW do revert to chain drive (and it appears they will) that would put me off buying it big time. Trouble is, what else is out there that is a mid weight, good for touring, and general duties, and doesn't have a chain?

  43. #83
    Daboo's Avatar
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    '14 F800 GT
    The F800GT, and the F800ST.
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
    IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder

    John 14:6

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  45. #84
    Daboo's Avatar
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    I'm interested to see what BMW does with this. Not that I want to buy one at all. I don't. But BMW is positioning the new GT replacement directly against the Yamaha Tracer GT. Will the BMW have more horsepower? Probably not. Will it handle better? The Tracer GT is already pretty good in this regard. The Tracer GT has an adjustable suspension. Will the BMW have that? The Tracer GT has the electronic ride modes. The BMW will have those too. Seat height will be higher on the F800GT replacement...like the Tracer GT has. BMW will have a chain, and not a belt drive. With a belt drive, that would've swung some people to it, but not on the new bike. It's like BMW made a Chinese clone of the Yamaha bike.

    What will the BMW have for it become the better bike in a head-to-head matchup?

    So it'll be interesting to me to see the matchups in the reviews.

    Chris
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
    IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder

    John 14:6

  46. #85
    Richard230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    I'm interested to see what BMW does with this. Not that I want to buy one at all. I don't. But BMW is positioning the new GT replacement directly against the Yamaha Tracer GT. Will the BMW have more horsepower? Probably not. Will it handle better? The Tracer GT is already pretty good in this regard. The Tracer GT has an adjustable suspension. Will the BMW have that? The Tracer GT has the electronic ride modes. The BMW will have those too. Seat height will be higher on the F800GT replacement...like the Tracer GT has. BMW will have a chain, and not a belt drive. With a belt drive, that would've swung some people to it, but not on the new bike. It's like BMW made a Chinese clone of the Yamaha bike.

    What will the BMW have for it become the better bike in a head-to-head matchup?

    So it'll be interesting to me to see the matchups in the reviews.

    Chris
    One thing you can be sure of is that the BMW will be quite a bit heavier than the Tracer and, like you said, is sure to have less power and torque, plus a higher price. Both, of course, will have chain drive.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.†

  47. #86
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    Motorcycle
    '07 F800ST
    I never had an issue with the side stand and even spun the bike around on it a few times, like in the video above. Sometimes you have to be a bit selective of where or how you park the bike, but that was the same with the gs500f suzi I had prior to the STs, so I was used to it anyway.
    As of Mon, 1st Feb 2016- ;
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery,
    Today is a gift (that's why it's called "the present")
    #1 tip I ride by: Ride as though you're invisible, not invincible
    Bikes so far: Honda CB250-Traded, Suzuki GS500F-Traded, '07 F800ST Matt Graphitan-Deceased, '10 F800ST Night Blue-sold, at present bikeless

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