Engine bars and down pipe protector - BMW F800 Riders Forum & Registry



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  1. #1
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    Dear All,


    Has anyone managed to fit a Down Pipe protector " Cage/screen " to the front fairing halves and also a Engine Protector??

    At first glance these items seem mutually exclusive??

    Any thoughts ?

    Happy Christmas

    Tedfred

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  3. #2
    MGD109's Avatar
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    As far as I'm aware the only engine protection for the GT is the Wunderlich crash bars.

    https://www.wunderlich.de/shop/en/bm...rotection.html

    Touratech used to make a more encompassing model but doesn't seem to be available.
    In the Garage 2013 BMW F800 GT,1994 BMW R80 RT,1986 BMW R80 GS,1999 Yamaha SR125
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGD109 View Post
    As far as I'm aware the only engine protection for the GT is the Wunderlich crash bars.

    https://www.wunderlich.de/shop/en/bm...rotection.html

    Touratech used to make a more encompassing model but doesn't seem to be available.
    I've got them fitted, after spending too much time crawling on the garage floor and eventually giving up. (I got frustrate and then saw the funny side of thinking what I would say if I saw an 80+ old man lying on his back in a garage trying to hold hid head up after too long having to hold it up trying to see where the 'vital' bolt went and wondering how to get a spanner on it.) So I took it up to my local motorcycle garage who put it up on a 'table, then spent half a day fitting having to manufacture a bolt to cut through the brick hard mud in a blind hole immediately behind the exhaust pipes. However all is well and it works (don't ask.....). (I've seen a Blood Bike fitted with these crash bars and it looks smart!)

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    Here is a link to the thread on the R&G screen.

    https://f800riders.org/forum/showthr...Downpipe-Grill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumpin View Post
    Here is a link to the thread on the R&G screen.

    https://f800riders.org/forum/showthr...Downpipe-Grill
    Hi All
    Thanks for your responses,

    The down pipe grill looks fantastic but it also looks as if it prevents me from fitting the engine bars. After reading Rev Ken's experience I might decide to send these bars back as they do not fit together correctly and I did not realise the difficulty in attaching them to the engine. Neither did I realise that part of the fairing has to be drilled in order to locate a hidden mounting hole.

    At the moment I am struggling with a rounded out Torx bolt mounted to the semi circular flange attached to the underside of the mono shock. I believe this SS bolt has " Picked up " on the aluminium and just seized. The problem is that its effectively recesses far back into the drive belt cover and is going to prove a " ditch" to remove. I have ordered the left hand drills , the easy outs and a Vampliers to attempt the job. All this just to fit a rear hugger! I will fit standard Allan key set bolts when reassembling the bike, I have to say that I hate these Torx bolts they appear to be very poor quality judging by the way they rust.

    Regards to all


    Tedfred

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    MGD109's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedfred View Post

    At the moment I am struggling with a rounded out Torx bolt mounted to the semi circular flange attached to the underside of the mono shock. I believe this SS bolt has " Picked up " on the aluminium and just seized. The problem is that its effectively recesses far back into the drive belt cover and is going to prove a " ditch" to remove........I will fit standard Allan key set bolts when reassembling the bike, I have to say that I hate these Torx bolts they appear to be very poor quality judging by the way they rust.
    .....
    Not suggesting you don't know what you're about tefred but in my experience it's easy to be "fooled" into using an undersized torx key/socket. A little bit of muck in the head of the bolt can make the correct size torx key becomes impossible to locate in the head of the bolt and an undersized one will actually "grip" the bolt. I first used torx keys decades ago when they became the most common way to hold machine tool inserts in a toolholder at first I really hated them but I've grown to tolerate them.
    In the Garage 2013 BMW F800 GT,1994 BMW R80 RT,1986 BMW R80 GS,1999 Yamaha SR125
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  10. #7
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    Hi Tedfred

    If the stuck fastener is SS, personal I'd not try and drill and use a EZOut. If the fastener was steel, I'd might try drilling if the other traditional methods had failed.

    You mention that the fastener in question has rusted. I'd not expect that from SS so pending check, I'd suspect it's actually steel.

    Either way, I'd be running a suitable tap through to clean out the threads before reassembly.

    Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

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  12. #8
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    Hi Again All,

    The comment on rust Boxerbits was a general comment, the rounded torx bolt is not rusted ( anyway its in an enclosed space), but I take your point about drilling. Unfortunately, the EZouts I have used so far have failed to shift the bolt, though I fear putting to much effort in as the easy outs I currently have have a tendency to snap. I have ordered some "Trend" Grabit type extractors and await their arrival . I am also awaiting some 2mm left hand drills ( Anticlockwise) which have served me well in the past. The " Vampliers" I bought proved to be too big to fit far enough down in the recess to grasp the bolt, that was a major disappointment as I was impressed with the write up on those.
    If nothing works, My last ditch plan is to use a diamond tipped 10mm hole saw and cut the plastic around the bolt thus allowing me to take the belt guide off the bike. With this off I can put a mole grips on the bolt head at a 90 degree angle to its longitudinal axis and remove it that way. I would then attempt to repair the 10mm hole in the guard with J B Weld or some other epoxy before re-drilling it. I stress this is a last ditch attempt.
    I wish I had never decided to put a hugger on the back end.

    Regards as ever to all


    Tedfred

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    I've had reasonable results with a grabit with cross heads when woodworking but I've never tried it with a fubar torx. May work.

    I'm assuming that the screw that you're having difficulty with is of similar size to the one's holding the fairing together, i.e. button head torx that fits the standard tool kit driver. And that the head is now not totally fubar after the EZouts that you've tried. The following stands a decent chance as it will only have been tightened originally to a relatively low torque. (It's also low cost!)

    1. With a good pin punch and light tapping at an angle inwards from all around the edge of the screw, bring the original sides back as close as you can to original. You'll not manage too much in SS but a little will help just don't get the biggest hammer out of the draw.

    2. Apply a little heat to the screw head using a hair dryer. Don't go mad, just a few minutes with a domestic hair dryer.

    3. Fill the orifice that the torx tool would normally be put into with coarse valve grinding paste. You'll not be needing much and Halfords used to sell this in small tubs for very little.

    4. Get yourself a decent tee handled torx screw driver of the correct size. Don't use the one from the toolkit as it's likely to have been damaged by your earlier attempts.

    5. Using the tee handled driver, the grinding paste will help it get a better grip on what's left of the screw. Try to unscrew it while putting downward pressure on the tee handle. Significant downward pressure is important and be sure to turn it the right way.

    Hope that you find this of use.











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  14. #10
    MGD109's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedfred View Post
    ........With this off I can put a mole grips on the bolt head at a 90 degree angle to its longitudinal axis and remove it that way......
    I've had one bolt on my GT that was a PITA to remove. It was used to mount the crash bars and screws into the front of the engine crankcase. It rotated a couple of turns then locked up which for me was an odd occurrence. I was using a 3/8 torx socket on the end of an extension, eventually the torx socket splines twisted under the load and let go damaging the bolt head in the process (a better quality socket should have got it out). I was lucky because the bolt was now slightly proud of the engine casing enabling my "Vise Grips" to get a firm grip on the bolt head, if the bolt was still flush against the engine casing I really don't think my grips could have successfully held onto the button shaped bolt head it was an M10 thread and needed considerable force to remove.

    Every bolt I've removed from the bike appears "dry". Until I come across something I think needs thread lock they all go back in with generous amounts of Copper Slip.
    In the Garage 2013 BMW F800 GT,1994 BMW R80 RT,1986 BMW R80 GS,1999 Yamaha SR125
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    BoxerBits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGD109 View Post

    ..

    Until I come across something I think needs thread lock they all go back in with generous amounts of Copper Slip.
    Agree, Copper Slip is a good stuff. A friend of mine who did his apprenticeship back in the late 60's early 70's when just about everything the British motor industry produced rusted put me on to merits of Copper Slip.

    Would also recommend Irwin Bolt Grips. Work well on hex heads but probably wouldn't try them on a button head screws.

    Sometimes though it's more sensible to stop and pay for an hour's bench time with an old time mechanic or engineer. They deal with this sort of challenges on a daily basis.



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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxerBits View Post
    ........back in the late 60's early 70's when just about everything the British motor industry produced rusted put me on to merits of Copper Slip.......
    Coincidentally currently rebuilding my 1977 Land Rover for the second time. First time (30 years ago now!!!) I replaced the chassis with a fully galvanized one, first chassis had numerous patches and repair sections at only 10 years old, second chassis is still sound requiring nothing more than a going over with a wire bush and some waxoyl. Bulkhead on the other hand is a very different matter. It's currently with the re-conditioners who will galvanize it when they've finish replacing the rot. Very glad I'd discovers Copped Slip back then it all came apart relatively easily. After it's back together I strongly suspect it will outlast me.

    In the Garage 2013 BMW F800 GT,1994 BMW R80 RT,1986 BMW R80 GS,1999 Yamaha SR125
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  18. #13
    BoxerBits's Avatar
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    Nice project and well worth the effort. There's a local group of mostly retired engineers doing something similar in one of our neighboring villages. Age range from 7 to 70. (One of the grandson's is encouraged to join in when he can.)

    Been going for a couple of years now so don't think that too much work gets done apart from the serious planning in the pub.

    If they ever think of a filming a new series of "Last of the summer wine" this group would stand a good chance of being cast as the main characters.

    Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

  19. #14
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hi Boxerbits, Et al

    I have enclosed a image just, to give you an idea of the problem. The other problem is, there are no specialist shops open around this time of year and what I have ordered to attack this issue has not been delivered.

    Using a punch to "close in " the bolt in order to get a second bite with a torx drive is difficult as can be seen in the image. I have used a centre punch on that part of the circumference I can get to a) to close in the torx area of the bolt and b) try and undo it. Unfortunately, the torx drive did not grip and the bolt does not turn. What worries me is that the 30 odd mm long bolt which secures the outer belt guard has been ground ( split) down its longitudinal length and a form of tread lock used that is as hard as a rock. I know this as I can not clean the mess out of the trench along the split. I have to be careful with the application of heat as the bolt is deep in the plastic recess. I am now tempted to follow Boxerbits advice and go and pay a specialist to take on this job, though in the past when I have hired a supposed specialist I have been horrified to find the supposed specialist is a Kack handed idiot and I would have been better of doing the job myself.
    My EZ outs arrived late this afternoon I will give them a go in the next two days.

    Thanks again to all and I wish you all Happy New Years and years and years

    Tedfred

  20. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGD109 View Post
    Every bolt I've removed from the bike appears "dry". Until I come across something I think needs thread lock they all go back in with generous amounts of Copper Slip.
    Will Copper Slip compromise a torque setting?
    Sundog 

  21. #16
    MGD109's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundog52 View Post
    Will Copper Slip compromise a torque setting?
    Very good question and one I can't answer. The only time I've had manufactures have an opinion on it is with bicycles and the mounting of now older type square taper crank arms, the arms are alloy and have a square taper hole at one end (opposite the pedal) the shaft they mount to is steel with a single bolt holding them in place, at least one manufacture has two torque setting one if greased and one if not, slightly less if greased because they feel the reduced friction will force the crank arm further onto the taper and therefore increase the forces in the square hole in the crank and increase the chances of a failure.

    I'm based in the UK, it can be very wet at anytime of the year and salt will be liberally applied when needed, under those conditions anywhere alloy and steel (even stainless steel) come into contact with each other can result in a stuck fastening. IMHO if you torque to the correct setting with or without Copper Slip it will stay put but when you need to get the bolt out with Copper Slip you will, with out, well he have all been there.
    In the Garage 2013 BMW F800 GT,1994 BMW R80 RT,1986 BMW R80 GS,1999 Yamaha SR125
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  22. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundog52 View Post
    Will Copper Slip compromise a torque setting?
    There's a lot of science to that question. In brief, any lube will reduce torque. Lots of variables, but roughly in the 25% to 40% range, depending on the type of lube, amount and type of threads on the nut/bolt, type of metal and on and on.

    While anti-seize is not a lubricant per se, I imagine it does have some similar properties.

    I wouldn't worry too much about it. Personally, I prefer to avoid the potential of seizing and subsequent stripping of the head. So add a bit more torque. Unless it's into plastic.
    Concrete remains undefeated. 

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  24. #18
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    Dear All,

    The problem bolt is out! It has removed by driving a spline drive socket into what remained of the torx head, whilst holding a lump hammer against the opposite side of the flange it attached to.
    I can now get on with putting the hugger on .

    Thanks for all your posts regarding this issue


    Happy New Year

    Tedfred

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