BMW F800 Forum banner

Engine Oil...... again!

4K views 29 replies 12 participants last post by  Richard230 
#1 ·
Despite lots of reading I am still trying to find an economic (cheapish) oil to put in my 2015 GT. I understand the specification nomenclature. What I would like to know is what the handbook means by:

, Additives (e.g. molybdenum-based) are not permissible .........

Is this additive in the make up of the main engine oil? Surely they all have them.

Is it an additive that is from a separate bottle/product?

I am thinking of using Westway 15W50 Motorcycle Oil Fully Synthetic 4 Stroke JASO MA2 15W-50 API SL 5 Litres.

It may only be available in the Uk. Any thoughts on the quality of this oil?

Also, what are the UK available equivalents to the BMW oil and air filters?
 
#2 ·
I don't know anything about Westway. But if you want cheap oil that works well, I would recommend Shell Rotella T4. It is a 10W-40 conventional oil that meets JASO MA2 specifications. I have been using that oil for years in my Yamaha and F650GS. In the U.S. you can typically find that "truck" oil on sale for around $15 USD in a 4-liter jug. Unless you ride in extremely hot weather, I doubt that a 50wt oil is necessary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: notacop
#3 ·
"moly" is an extremely slick lubricant. I think the issue with using an oil with moly in it, is it could make your clutch slip.

If your Westway oil says it is for motorcycles and says it is JASO MA2 certified, it should be just fine.

Chris
 
#6 ·
"moly" is an extremely slick lubricant. I think the issue with using an oil with moly in it, is it could make your clutch slip.

If your Westway oil says it is for motorcycles and says it is JASO MA2 certified, it should be just fine.

Chris
From the handbook:
, Additives (e.g. molybdenum-based) are not permissible because they can attack coated components of the engine.

That doesn't sound like BMW are talking about a clutch friction plate.
 
#4 ·
#7 ·
Don't know about Westway but have always found Castrol products OK. Castrol Power 1 4T 15w - 50 complies with BMW requirements and is available from :
https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-79229-...-50-semi-synthetic-motorcycle-engine-oil.aspx
The manual notes re additives refer to additional products added by owner beyond oil spec.
url]https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=3&NU=15&M=70&Ct=UA[/url]
Is that a definite from BMW, about the additive Chris? I only ask because Castrol extol the virtues of their additive in Power 1. It is a zinc and phosphorous based additive.
 
#5 ·
I use Westway Oil in my 2013 GT. I just accept that the spec of the oil is genuine as such is as good as anything else but a lot cheaper no issues but 10,000 miles is no real test, I drop the oil every 3K miles so cost can mount. Because I'd never heard of them I did do a search on companies house register to make sure they where a legitimate company and had filed a few years accounts.
 
#10 ·
Thanks Andrew. Sounds like you know your stuff.

From the handbook:
, Additives (e.g. molybdenum-based) are not permissible because they can attack coated components of the engine.

So, do those additives attack BMWs engine coatings?
I think you are probably asking "why" as the BMW statement you have quoted states that molybdenum will attack coated components.

Coatings can be used to improve the thermal properties, the ability to withstand friction and wear as well as the ability to shed or retain lubrication.

Not knowing what the coating is comprised of, I can only speculate that since molybdenum reacts with oxygen upon heating forming molybdenum trioxide, that this resulting compound does not play nice with the coating.

And if I can go really take a leap, I'd suggest that the BMW coating is also molybdenum based. The risk being that the moly additive is "harder" than the moly coating such that the coating wears first - an undesirable outcome.
 
#12 ·
I have read that Zinc and phosphorus are a good thing for highly-stressed motorcycle engines. But it is bad for catalytic converter life, which is why the oil companies are cutting back on the elements in their oil, especially now that most all motorcycles have catalytic converters in their exhaust systems - and maybe two are needed to meet Euro 5 emission requirements. [:(]
 
#17 ·
The Environmental Folks have declared that ZDDP (Zinc and Phosphorus) are bad for Catalytic Convertors and Oxygen Sensors, and have required that it be reduced in modern engine oils. The old oil compounds used to have around 1,200 ppm of ZDDP - most modern oils have been reduced to 600 ppm of ZDDP. Rotella and a number of other Heavy Duty Engine Oils (HDEO) still have a high ZDDP content, as do a number of Performance oils. The new engine oils work fine in new new engines - but in a lot of older equipment the lower ZDDP level can lead to accelerated cam and rocker wear - the Suzuki Savage is especially prone to this as each rocker lifts two valves with inner/outer springs (4 springs each). Folks who use oils with low ZDDP in their Savage get short cam/rocker life - however on the www.suzukisavage.com forum we have one member who has used Rotella T6 for all of the 200,000 miles on his bike and his cam and rockers are still fine and still being used (he rebuilt his engine at 160,000 miles and the only engine parts out of spec where the valve guide, and the only parts he replaced where the valve and guides and piston rings).

I am not sure that oils with the high ZDDP levels are all that destructive to the catalytic convertor, as I have been using Rotella T6 in my 2006 Pontiac Vibe for all of the 165,000 miles and it still runs fine, and I still have the original Oxygen Sensor and Catalytic Convertor in the car. I will continue using Rotella T-6 as it is economical and provides all the protection that is needed - I use it in my car, in my diesel tractor, my lawn equipment and in all my motorcycles. For those parts of the world where Rotella T is available - I believe there really isn't any need to use more expensive oils.

The BMW F800GT and all the other models may not need the elevated ZDDP levels and may be fine with the modern oils with reduced ZDDP - but I don't believe the extra amount is as hard on the oxygen sensor and catalytic convertor as the regulators feel it is.
 

Attachments

#18 ·
Thumpin: Are you sure that you have been using Rotella T-6, or was it T-4? T-4 is the mineral oil version of Rotella which has a viscosity of 15W-40, while T-6 is the full synthetic version with a viscosity of 5W-40, which is too light for older motorcycles, although it would be fine when used in the latest water-cooled BMW engines, like my R1200RS. I think it might be too light for the F800-series engines. :confused: Both oils are rated to meet JASO MA2 specifications.
 
#22 · (Edited)
The cold weather/winter rating of 15W for the T4 or 5W for the T6 really doesn't make any difference on my bikes......I am not going to be riding my motorcycle in the winter. All oil gets thicker when it is cold, and the T6 does not thin at cold temperatures.......it just doesn't get as thick as 15W and obtains a 5W rating at those cold temperature. (The oil really is thick - if you don't believe me put some in your refrigerator or freezer and then see how it pours).

It is actually better to have a lower winter rating for an oil.......not worse. The oil is not "thinner" - it just has a lower resistance to rotational and pumping force at low temperatures.
 
#19 ·
Thumpin can answer for himself, but I've been using T6 5W-40 in my F800GT for 51,000 miles so far. (I don't know what was used in the first 2000 miles by the first owner.) It's not burning oil and continues to amaze me for how smooth it runs.

Prior to this bike, I used T6 in my Honda NT700V for 30,000 miles and it used no oil. And prior to that, I used it in a Suzuki for about 50K.

Chris
 
#23 ·
I run Rotella T6 on my ST because I live in Wisconsin and commute. Up here it's cold enough for the difference in 5W and 15W to make a noticeable difference for half my starts throughout the year. Given the weak battery and stator in our bikes, I need every bit of help I can get. I ride to work as long as it's above 25F. In the cold I wear heated gear and use the heated grips. The charging system cannot maintain the amp demand at idle so I have to be careful watching my volt meter. It's especially important on the way home since it sits outside while I'm at work all day as opposed to my heated garage for the way in to work. I also use my bike to often run short errands around town where everything is within a few miles from the house. I'd like to think that the 5W will help improve mileage and reduce wear for these short rides. Once it's warmed up it's the same viscosity. 40 is 40. T6 is a great oil that is perfect for my ST.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 
#24 ·
It never gets below 40 degrees F at my home during the winter and maybe 75 degrees during the summer. So I don't pay that much attention to what oil I use. But it is good to know that Rotella T6 works fine as I happen to have a gallon of it in my garage right now that I was saving for my RS. At least I now know that I can use it on some of my other motorcycles - but maybe not in my Royal Enfield. :rolleyes:
 
#27 ·
High zinc and phosphorus oils are great in vintage engines that use plain brass bushes, ball and roller bearings etc. I use them in my old Vincent and Riley engines. Moly additives are good for BMW final drive and I also use them on axles in various bikes. I think products such as Xcel plus, Moly Slip etc. are totally OTT in our engines. They are meant for race engines that are rebuilt frequently or, again, old style engines that do not run super lean or within the same tolerances as BMW engines. I do run these additives in my old engines that have oil pressures of (maybe) 5-10 psi but not in my modern stuff. A quality oil, frequent oil changes and a filter change every second oil change is cheap insurance. A rebuild on one of my Vincent engines would cost at least $20,000 so a no brainer for me. Sometimes people make a problem from something that doesn't exist.
 
#28 ·
There was a time many year ago in my youth - when I did not understand motor oils and I thought thicker always provided better protection......and race oils were best of all!

I now understand that race oils generally don't have the chemical protection package as real race cars change oil after each race, and thicker oils belong in vintage equipment that was made with larger tolerances and need thicker oils to fill the gaps!

I agree with Jim (AutoXer-1) and Albervin - modern engines and modern oils are sooooo much better than they used to be, and engine failures are rare. It used to be that car engines were worn out at 100,000 miles - it is not uncommon for 200,000 or 300,000 miles now, and I have seen several cars approaching 400,000 miles! Back in the 70's I worked in a motorcycle shop and seeing any bike with more than 30,000 miles was uncommon - now it is not all that uncommon and I know of a Suzuki Savage with 200,000 miles, a DR650 with 165,000 miles, and big touring bikes reach those kind of miles easily when maintained and ridden regularly. (I had thought that if I ever was going to own a touring bike it would be a BMW......it only took me 45 years to fulfill that goal).

I use the Rotella T-6 in all my bikes, and just don't worry about about oil anymore.....it is very easy to buy and is in all the big box, auto supply, farm store and truck stops in the US, it is very affordable, and it does what is needed and will protect the engines well into my old age!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top