CA requires electric truck sales - BMW F800 Riders Forum & Registry



Remove this advertisement by REGISTERING.

Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 178,978, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    9,356 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    An article in my newspaper today said that California regulators have passed a rule requiring that certain percentages of all truck sales in the state must be fully electric, or otherwise zero emission, including pickup trucks, delivery trucks and tractor-trailer trucks. The rules, which take effect in 2024 will require at least 40% of all tractor-trailer trucks sold in California to be zero emission vehicles by 2035, 55% of pickup trucks and 75% of delivery trucks by that year. Good luck forcing people to buy those vehicles. You know what they say about horses and water.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  2. Remove Advertisements
    F800Riders.org
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    notacop is offline The original Schwartz Wald Troll
    Points: 49,440, Level: 100

    Location
    SoCalif. near Pasadena
    Joined
    Sep 2007
    Online
    15 Hours Ago
    Posts
    13,361 / 8 / 110 / 2177
    Motorcycle
    '08 F800 ST
    Motorcycle
    '04 DL-650A V-Strom
    Motorcycle
    '13 G650GS (Single)
    I'd read that some company is now operating electric semi's that can be autonomous too. Great for companies like WalMart and the distribution system.
    A lot of workman, like construction workers, could benefit from an electric truck to get around in an Urban area. Local companies like HVAC repair, etc would be good opportunities too.

  4. #3
    OX-34's Avatar
    Points: 6,780, Level: 57

    Real Name
    Peter
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Joined
    Dec 2013
    Online
    23 Hours Ago
    Posts
    392 / 3 / 3 / 76
    Motorcycle
    '13 F800 GT
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    Good luck forcing people to buy those vehicles. You know what they say about horses and water.
    You can hand a man a mask at a political rally but you cain't make him wear it.

    Richard, nobody can force anyone to buy an electric vehicle. But when your gubbiment decides that perhaps 'climate change' is not some variation of the 19 different names for the CHIINA virus and needs to be taken seriously, then they can force vehicle manufacturers to toe the line. Now there will be some steadfast 'burn it up' types who won't be caught dead with quiet pipes or a lecky truck. About 45% of pickups by your report.

    However, despite the fact that in the short term electric vehicles cost more to manufacture, nobody, buddy, can stop the manufacturers from putting the gas-guzzler pickup price up in relation to its production costs to thereby subsidise the lecky pickup price if they feel the need. Same for the other classes of vehicle.

    I think that in the land of the free that is called capitalism.

    It is also the way of the future in the land of the brave.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    F800Riders.org
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 2,538, Level: 32

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    2 Days Ago
    Posts
    336 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    My nieces husband is a contractor,. He said "can you see yourself showing up at a job site with the Cyber Truck",,,,,, that pretty much summed it up right there,,. I know not everyone thinks that as there order book is quite busy from what I understand,,. As far as the Semi's, its all about the money, if there is a viable business model that is more profitable then the Diesel, you will see them in droves,,!!

    Ford F150 for 2021 has a hybrid model, perhaps this counts towards a portion of there requirement?

  7. #5
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 178,978, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    9,356 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    I would say that the lack of a suitable electric grid infrastructure to recharge vehicles with big batteries within a reasonable amount of time is going to be a major obstacle to the introduction of a large number of these vehicles. That and the price, of course. They are still being sold at a premium, compared with gas-powered vehicles (batteries are still very expensive), and government subsides are few and far between and are also fading away as state and federal budgets get squeezed by other concerns.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  8. #6
    OX-34's Avatar
    Points: 6,780, Level: 57

    Real Name
    Peter
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Joined
    Dec 2013
    Online
    23 Hours Ago
    Posts
    392 / 3 / 3 / 76
    Motorcycle
    '13 F800 GT
    Richard, I'm suggesting that the manufacturers will need to squeeze more out of the gas-guzzler customers to pay for the electric vehicle customers, not the government paying for the electric vehicles. In the land of the free citizens hate having to pay for some other dude's health care, but if they want to buy a brand new diesel truck they will end up paying for some other dude's battery.

    I'm not sure about the USA and California in particular, but most contractors (we call them 'tradies' here in Oz) live and work in towns and don't need to travel great distances with all of their tools. They will need to charge up at home or on site. The latter is a pretty easy thing to do once it is decided to do something, rather than just whinge about the sound of the engine.

    As for the contractors who live and work a long way apart, they will still have the option of fossil fuels for a while longer. Or they will have to stop along the way to charge. Simple.

    Creative use of solar-energy technology like flexible panels and especially paint on vehicle bodywork will be a great step forward, like having a trickle charger on a sunny day. Not so good in current smog-towns like L.A. I suppose, but hey presto, the smog will reduce so it will become a win-win.

  9. #7
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 178,978, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    9,356 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    I just don't see electric vehicles catching on in a big way in the U.S. Tesla has done well with people who are well-off and trendy, but many other electric vehicle sales (like the Chevy Bolt) are struggling and people who buy pickup trucks are very conservative. Electric motorcycle sales have never gone anywhere. Zero has been selling electric motorcycles for the past 10 years and they are only selling at a rate of about 2-3K a year. No other electric motorcycle manufacturer that makes highway-legal vehicles (excluding the Chinese market that do not sell in the U.S. market and only make low-power bikes) comes anywhere near that number, although the sales of the Italian brand Energica are climbing.

    I might add that I have owned five electric motorcycles over the past 11 years, but I am in very much the minority and no one else that I ride with is interested in them.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  10. #8
    Daboo's Avatar
    Points: 46,731, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Chris
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Online
    7 Hours Ago
    Posts
    4,318 / 0 / 9 / 3
    Motorcycle
    '14 F800 GT
    Tesla is an example that comes to mind of how much of an issue it'll be to make this happen. I'm using them for an example because they are the pioneers in EV cars and are the most pro-active in making EV cars a reality. If there's a problem for their vehicles with this many years on the market, what can you expect with the new trucks?

    If I am driving from Seattle to Spokane, I need to plan out where I'll find a place to recharge. I can count on gas stations anywhere, but I can't count on where I can find a supercharger station or what level of charging performance it'll have.

    Just taking a standard route I've done many times when I was in the Washington Air National Guard, from Seattle to Spokane, here's what it looks like using Tesla's "Go Anywhere" website for planning.

    Using a Tesla Model S Standard Range model, it routes me on I-90 and shows two charging stations on the way. All seems great.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Tesla Standard I90.jpg 
Views:	59 
Size:	633.5 KB 
ID:	366003

    But then I throw a wrinkle in things. I want to go on a more northerly route on Hwy 20. So I set an interim destination as Tonasket, WA. And this is where it blows up.

    If I have the Tesla Model S Long Range model, it'll do it. But only if it routes me to a charging station up in British Columbia. When I try to have it route me across the North Cascades Highway, it barfs and says "Oops! It looks like something went wrong, please try again." And this is with the "Long Range" model.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Tesla Long Range.jpg 
Views:	60 
Size:	850.5 KB 
ID:	366005

    And if I only have the Tesla Model S Standard Range model, this is that it does to route me through Tonasket to Spokane.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Tesla Standard.jpg 
Views:	58 
Size:	638.4 KB 
ID:	366007

    My last trip from the eastern side of Washington State took me through the northern portion of the state along the Grand Coulee dam, and over the North Cascades Highway, Hwy 20. It's a beautiful route with lots of things to see and perfect for a motorcycle, even with the small size of our gas tanks. But for an electric vehicle, it becomes an exercise in "range anxiety", followed closely by "charge anxiety". The first is, can my vehicle make the distance? The second, is how long will it take to recharge?

    I wonder how fleet managers will determine how to buy their truck fleets to service all the areas of a state. Not just the area where the legislators live and work, but out in the "fly over" country where towns are far apart? And what happens when the truckers pull into an area to "fill up" and their vehicle takes up the room for all the charging stations because of its size. It's like the legislators decided we'll force change...and someone else will have to figure it out and pay for it.

    Look for them to come after your gas-powered, smog producing, hazardous motorcycle next.

    Chris
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
    IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder

    John 14:6 

  11. #9
    Biff's R's Avatar
    Points: 1,706, Level: 25

    Location
    Newark, Ohio
    Joined
    Mar 2018
    Online
    2 Weeks Ago
    Posts
    3 / 0 / 0 / 0
    I work in the ready mixed concrete industry, and I am around large trucks most of the workday. They are not making any money when they are sitting still, and adding weight for batteries means you have to reduce your load size which in turn would require more shipments to move the same amount of material. Unless there are major improvements in range based upon hours and weight reduction, I don't see a pure EV as being a possibility for a long time. Whoops, I ran outta charge and now I have 10 cy of hard concrete inside my truck won't fly. Many of our customers wouldn't be able to charge onsite, because there isn't electric onsite yet. Maybe diesel-electric hybrids could be in the future(like most trains in the US).

  12. LikesRichard230 liked this post
  13. #10
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 178,978, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    9,356 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    Attached is a timely article that appeared in my newspaper today. Note that 29% of the buyers of cars in the city of Palo Alto, located close to Tesla HQ, purchased electric vehicles. However, in other parts of the U.S., only 1% of shoppers purchased electric. Meanwhile sales in Europe were 385,000. My understanding is that electric motorcycles in EU countries are also much more popular than they are here. I believe that the majority of Zero electric motorcycle sales are not occurring in Europe. We do love our smog in the U.S.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9136.JPG 
Views:	11 
Size:	824.3 KB 
ID:	366019  
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  14. #11
    steve n rose's Avatar
    Points: 62,764, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Steve
    Location
    Morwell, Vic
    Joined
    Dec 2007
    Online
    1 Hour Ago
    Posts
    11,426 / 8 / 151 / 893
    Motorcycle
    '10 F800ST
    Motorcycle
    '07 F800ST
    It would cut down on the rolling coal problem.
    As of Mon, 1st Feb 2016- ;
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery,
    Today is a gift (that's why it's called "the present")
    #1 tip I ride by: Ride as though you're invisible, not invincible
    Bikes so far: Honda CB250-Traded, Suzuki GS500F-Traded, '07 F800ST Matt Graphitan-Deceased, '10 F800ST Night Blue-sold, at present bikeless 

  15. LikesRichard230 liked this post
  16. #12
    OX-34's Avatar
    Points: 6,780, Level: 57

    Real Name
    Peter
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Joined
    Dec 2013
    Online
    23 Hours Ago
    Posts
    392 / 3 / 3 / 76
    Motorcycle
    '13 F800 GT
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    ...I just don't see electric vehicles catching on in a big way in the U.S. ....
    That's ok, the rest of the world don't see electric vehicles catching on in a big way in the U.S. either.

    Land of the free, thinkers.
    COVFEFE-19 

  17. #13
    Hjwqe2's Avatar
    Points: 16, Level: 1

    Joined
    Jun 2020
    Online
    2 Hours Ago
    Posts
    5 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Thank for information!
    In Italia le consegne di Yun Express https://pkge.net/it/couriers/yunexpress vengono effettuate dai corrieri DHL, Poste Italiane e GLS. 

  18. #14
    Aeromechb2's Avatar
    Points: 170, Level: 3

    Location
    Tucson AZ
    Joined
    Feb 2018
    Online
    1 Week Ago
    Posts
    20 / 0 / 0 / 0
    I’m all for moving to electric vehicles but you have to look at what is really to gain from it. Right now in the U.S. most of our electricity comes from the burning of fossil fuels, about 63% of it, Next up is nuclear at about 20%. That leaves less than 20% of power from all renuable sources such as solar, wind and hydroelectric. Going all electric for vehicles just shifts the carbon footprint from the vehicle to to power source for the chargers. Until we find a cost effective way to produce large amounts of electricity without burning fossil fuels, forcing people to go electric is just a “feel good” jesture politicians push to make people think they are doing something productive. If politicians want the move to EV’s to succeed, they need to reduce and simplify regulations for energy types such as nuclear. The U.S. also needs to invest heavily in revamping our infrastructure. Even if we can cleanly produce all the ower needed to go all electric, getting it from the power stations to the charging stations is still a problem. The power grid in this country, like most other parts of our infrastructure, is in bad shape. Just look at the hudge wildfires in California, caused by undermaintained cross country power lines. A while back, large areas of central California were without power for days as the State mandated shutting down the grid for repairs. Imagine not being able to charge your EV for days at a time. Most EV use requires recharging every day, I can fill the tank on my gas vehicle and commute all week. The biggest obsical to going all electric is letting the government dictate how and when its done.

  19. LikesRichard230 liked this post
  20. #15
    OX-34's Avatar
    Points: 6,780, Level: 57

    Real Name
    Peter
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Joined
    Dec 2013
    Online
    23 Hours Ago
    Posts
    392 / 3 / 3 / 76
    Motorcycle
    '13 F800 GT
    Back in the day cars had to have a dude carrying a flag walk in front to warn the pedestrians and horses that the new-fangled automobile was coming along. I imagine many others thinking 'what's the point of this thing when there are no gas stations across the country, but there is grass and hay for the horse freely available'.

    Early on the elecky supply will be difficult and the battery technology needs improving (Did anybody else in here own a cell/mobile phone in the early 90s that weighed as much as a house brick and lasted just long enough to get a good view of yourself reflected in the shop windows before the battery ran flat?). Maybe we will have to wait at 'gas' station type places for a fast charge. At least we won't have to stop to top up the oil, fix a flat and rebuild the brakes like motorists used to have to do. It will all take too much time bleat the followers. I don't think my time is any more valuable to me than their time was to the car owners back then, by definition. In the states the solution would be easy. Just put a gun shop next to every charging station so the Daboo's MAGA mates could all do some popping shopping while they wait.

    Thankfully a bunch of forward thinking people firstly thought it was going to work eventually, secondly stayed on task long enough for the horseless wagon to develop into the long distance marvel that they all are today and thirdly did not listen to the peeps who just said 'it will never happen'.

    None of us are made of such pioneering stock if we are not able to learn from our forefathers and just simply get on with getting it done. I think most of us can see electric vehicles are going to work for us in the long run, we just need to man up enough to figure out how to get to that stage.
    COVFEFE-19 

  21. #16
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 178,978, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    9,356 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    The one way that would really boost EV sales is for another gas crisis to occur due to a war in the Middle East again, like what happened during the mid-1970. I experienced that lack of fuel back then and would sit in a long line of cars for couple of hours early in the morning waiting for the local gas station to open so that we could get our 10 gallon ration of fuel before the station ran out for the day. If electric vehicles had been around then, EV sales would have skyrocketed. But right now, gasoline is less expensive than electricity on a mile traveled basis, especially if bought from a commercial EV charging station.

    The other thing that definitely is not going to help EV sales is what was said in an article in my newspaper yesterday. California has just adopted new higher electric vehicle fees that went into effect yesterday. Here is what the article said:

    "A $100 fee begins today for electric cars with a model year of 2020 or later. This will be followed by an annual registration fee that varies based on the market value of the vehicle. On the low end, the fees are $25 for a vehicle valued at less than $5,000, but anyone with a $60,000-plus plug-in vehicle will be paying $175 per year. It is expected to generate $52 billion over 10 years, which will be put back into the state' budget for infrastructure repairs." (Or so they say..... )

    I assume that is in addition to the standard gasoline-fueled vehicle yearly $$$ (typically amounting to hundreds of dollars) registration fees. I have yet to hear if this new fee also applies to electric motorcycles, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. Electric motorcycles in this state are barely on our legislators' radar. Our legislators seem to think that rich people buying Teslas are the only ones who purchase electric vehicles and therefor can pay additional taxes and fees. But that is not going to boost EV sales among the proletariat, though.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •