Stalling and stuttering - BMW F800 Riders Forum & Registry



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  1. #51
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    Hey Lateral_G,

    Glad you got a code read. This narrows things down a bit (maybe).

    I would definitely go for a ride and see if any of the codes re-appear. Let the bike to its stalling thing as per usual. There is a chance that some of the codes might have been caused by having things disconnected during all your repairs (e.g., if you started the bike with some items disconnected). You've eliminated pretty much everything except the idle air actuator and the temp sensor from what I recall and you have codes on both of those components.

    That fuel pump code would indicate a short/electrical issue (with the pump or the controller). Usually a weak/dying fuel pump or fuel pump controller will cause a fairly sudden stall (immediate loss of pressure to the injectors). This would be most likely very intermittent however and your stalling is much more consistent. It would be interesting to see if that code returns or it is an anomaly.
    Last edited by Claudio_S; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:22 AM.
    Claudio
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  4. #52
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    @Claudio (and everyone who contributed here):
    I did check after clearing all the codes (there were a couple under the ABS controller as well), and none reappeared. And the bike also hasn't stalled. I rode a few times around my block (because I didn't wanna go too far in case the issue reoccurs) just to confirm. It did stutter a little once when I moved from a stop, and the idle still feels really poor because it fluctuates like in the videos I posted, but there has been no stalling.

    To be honest, this seems even more bizarre than an undiagnosable problem with some component, because I rode about 200 miles since I bought it in November last year, and there weren't such problems initially. If anything, I'd expect vehicles to struggle with idling and power loss more in the colder months. That's why I don't have much confidence in the bike right now. I don't know how to work up the courage to take a longer ride of even 2-3 miles away from home, never mind 100s of miles. I guess I can carry the OBD tool with me, just in case, but the fear of suddenly stalling at a stop sign or a red light persists.

    I'll test it a little more, especially at higher speeds, since I read about stalling issues at high speed in various forums/threads. I'll also tackle the valve cover gasket and valve clearance check in the coming month or so. Is there anything else I can do, especially something like idle actuator or TPS recalibration with Motoscan, to improve the idling performance? Or should I just let sleeping dogs lie?

  5. #53
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    One other thing you can do is add a Booster Plug (or comparable other brand). It would be more like a band-aid over the problem, but I found that it significantly improved things for a while. It tricks the computer into thinking that it's really cold out so it runs much richer at idle creating a smoother idle and better throttle response at slow speed. The computer eventually figures out that it is there, so at least once a year I'll unplug it, ride it around the block, then plug it in again.

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  7. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateral_G View Post
    It did stutter a little once when I moved from a stop, and the idle still feels really poor because it fluctuates like in the videos I posted, but there has been no stalling.

    Is there anything else I can do, especially something like idle actuator or TPS recalibration with Motoscan, to improve the idling performance? Or should I just let sleeping dogs lie?
    This likely points to a bad idle actuator and/or a valve adjustment issue. The idle when the throttle is closed is controlled by the ECU and operation of the idle actuator valve. Once the throttle is on, the idle actuator valve is no longer in the picture.

    Next Steps
    1. I would start by using the bike to run errands every day to develop a sense of the consistency of its running and stalling issue. I think this is firmly an idle stability issue, as such you are unlikely to experience a stall at speed when the throttle is open (you may when starting from a dead stop, downshifting, or engine braking if you allow the throttle to close fully).

    2. If you are taking your bike in for valves also get them to update the ECU software and calibrate the idle actuator if the motoscan doesn't do it. You might also ask them to clear all the adaptations (this is the self-learning the ECU does for things like throttle positiom (the motoscan should be able to clear these).

    Your unstable idle is likely caused by excessive air inconsistently getting into the mixture (the idle bounces up and down) and unlikely to be solved by bumping the mixture curve up a bit to a richer setting (thats what the booster plug does).
    Claudio
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  8. #55
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    I thought you might appreciate this, so I figured I'd share. Today during my commute to work (yes I had to work on labor day) my bike stalled at 3 stops in a row and wouldn't hold an idle. This is the first time in 2 years that I've experienced it. After the 3rd time I pulled over and turned the key off. Then I turned it back on and did the throttle twist reset procedure. When I started it up, it was rock steady at about 1600 RPM (200-400 higher than normal). No problems the rest of the way to work. The idle speed has since come back down to normal.

    My issue is obviously throttle position sensor or its wiring. I wish yours was as simple.

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  9. #56
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    @Cramer, TBH, I don't think the TPS reset procedure works on the F bikes. Not trying to criticize you or be negative, but I read similar questions/comments elsewhere as well. When I swapped back to my old TPS after the new TPS didn't do anything, I kinda combined ignition coil swap, fault checking/clearing, and reverting to the old TPS in one session, so I was just too keen on testing and forgot about resetting the TPS. And the throttle worked as expected even without the reset procedure; no dead zones or anything like that.

    Of course, your TPS might still be the root cause. But, I found that just turning the ignition off and turning it back on after 30-40 seconds also fixes the issue temporarily. So maybe it was the same in your case?
    It's so weird because everyone's problem has a little nuance that's different from the others' problems. I've yet to test what Claudio recommended above but the fact that the bike can act up at any time does not induce a good feeling.

    @Claudio, I was planning to do the valves myself. I don't wanna add the booster plug anyway, so I'll also upgrade to a Pro or Ultimate license on Motoscan and see what I can do with it. I think I know the answer to this, but any chance a BMW dealer will update the ECU software for free?

  10. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateral_G View Post
    I think I know the answer to this, but any chance a BMW dealer will update the ECU software for free?
    Not free but it shouldn't take more than 15-30 minutes tops. It would be worth doing to eliminate a possible software issue.
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  12. #58
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    Speaking of interesting/curious issues, Cramer, I experienced something interesting today when I went for a grocery run (4-5 miles roundtrip) as per Claudio's suggestions. Everything was pretty decent almost the whole way. The bike still stumbles while moving from a stop in the first few minutes, but not a full stall that forces me to stop and restart the engine.

    When I was about a block away from home, I was coasting downhill in 4th gear and, when I tried to downshift, the engine suddenly shut off while the power was still on. I was close enough that I coasted home in Neutral. Then, I tried starting it twice with no success. I then turned the ignition off and back on again, and then it started up but with some hesitation.
    This seemed like the well documented 'stalling at speed' issue due to fuel supply problems. I checked the codes again, and sure enough, 28CB (Electric fuel pump fuse activated) showed up. So I'm guessing the fuel pump needs to be replaced.
    Looks like my journey of self-discovery continues

  13. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateral_G View Post
    I checked the codes again, and sure enough, 28CB (Electric fuel pump fuse activated) showed up. So I'm guessing the fuel pump needs to be replaced.
    Looks like my journey of self-discovery continues
    This is good progress. I've used Duralast pumps and stators/regulators on my bikes from Euromotoelectrics.com (Denver). Decent price and good service.

    The swap is relatively easy compared to what you have been doing. It could also be the fuel pump controller (and expensive little BMW-only thing).

    I have a spare controller from a 2007 F800ST that I can give you (just pay shipping). I swapped it while troubleshooting but the issue turned out to be the actual pump. It had around 50,000Kms of use.
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    That's very kind of you, Claudio! I was also looking at the same pump from Euromotoelectrics, so I'm thinking I should first try the pump with the existing controller. Do you think it's better to swap both at the same time? I was also considering ordering the Mahle fuel filter that they have. I'll first check (in a couple of days) how the pump, controller, and filter on my bike look right now. I'm assuming I can also use Motoscan to run the pump/controller to do some additional checks.

    I've read a few threads about this pump issue on AdvRider, BMWMOA, etc. and it seems the issue is that the pump shuts off when there's no fuel consumption (for instance, when coasting in gear) and then, either due to heat or wear or something else, it requires a larger current to turn back on when fueling is required again. Seems to me like that's when the fuse gets tripped coz the ECU detects a higher electrical load. I don't know how to ascertain whether it's the pump alone or if the pump controller also contributes to this issue.

    Either way, I really appreciate your kind offer. I'll get back to you in a few days once I test my existing setup.

  15. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateral_G View Post
    Do you think it's better to swap both at the same time? I was also considering ordering the Mahle fuel filter that they have. I'll first check (in a couple of days) how the pump, controller, and filter on my bike look right now. I'm assuming I can also use Motoscan to run the pump/controller to do some additional checks.

    I've read a few threads about this pump issue on AdvRider, BMWMOA, etc. and it seems the issue is that the pump shuts off when there's no fuel consumption (for instance, when coasting in gear) and then, either due to heat or wear or something else, it requires a larger current to turn back on when fueling is required again. Seems to me like that's when the fuse gets tripped coz the ECU detects a higher electrical load. I don't know how to ascertain whether it's the pump alone or if the pump controller also contributes to this issue.

    Either way, I really appreciate your kind offer. I'll get back to you in a few days once I test my existing setup.
    The controller is external so try the pump first.
    Might as well put a new filter on it since you are in there.

    One tip (from my mistake), the OEM setup was a press fit, when I replaced my pump I attached the new kit also using a press fit (seemed tight enough and similar to OEM). It promptly popped off after a few days of use (wife not happy). Be sure to use a clamp on the fittings in/out of the pump.

    I think there is limited diagnostics you can do on the pump and controller (it either turns on or doesn't) but there isn't a test that attempts to simulate any sort of real world use/scenario. The CANBus code is being sensed by the ECU. As there are no moving parts in the controller (is a fancy on/off switch) it is most likely the pump but could be the controller.

    Your theory and research is sound. The fact that the bike would not start until you turned the ignition on/off is consistent with the ECU disabling a "short circuit". It resets with the ignition and voila, you can start the bike again.
    Last edited by Claudio_S; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:49 PM.
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  17. #62
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    fuel pump controller is identical part no with a 1200gs, and you can find a patent online in order no to use it!!! they claim that it can do no harm!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by xixi View Post
    fuel pump controller is identical part no with a 1200gs, and you can find a patent online in order no to use it!!! they claim that it can do no harm!!!
    I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying you folks are recommending running the pump without a controller? (something I would do as an emergency road-side fix for a dead controller but not a permanent solution).
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  19. #64
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    I've glanced over the threads and see you disassembled the ICV, have you re-calibrated this since? IIRc with the Motoscan license you can do this.

    When my bike was stalling ( i went through all of this list) it was a calibration of the ICV that cured it. My thread is probably on here somewhere and detailed everything i changed (including TPS).
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    I am proposing you, to overide pump controller and check your stalling issues...

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    @Claudio and anyone else who's changed fuel pumps: is it normal to have fuel dripping out of the plastic connector which the fuel hose to the rail plugs into? I spent about 30-45 minutes trying to pull the hose off (had to use a screwdriver to really work it off), and immediately, fuel started dripping out of the connector. Picture shows the little pool of fuel that dripped out. I connected the hose back to prevent the drip.
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    I was worried there's too much fuel in the tank. I didn't wanna proceed to remove the ring and the seal for the pump assembly only to have fuel come sloshing out. The bike is on the side stand, and the fuel level gauge on the dash does say it's full, although (I believe) the gauge never starts dropping till about the half-tank level. I tried siphoning off some with a fuel hose I bought for the idle hose replacement, but it's too big I think (5/16 in. dia), so the fuel just kept dripping out.
    Is this normal, or do I have too much fuel?

    Edited to add: @xixi, I think overriding the pump controller needs a special tool that I need to buy from somewhere for about $20-30. The previous owner did say he replaced the fuel pump for $40, although he didn't say when. So I thought it might have been a cheap one and might have failed again. I got a new pump anyway, so I'll try it first. And if the fault persists, I'll test a different controller. Also, I think overriding it will keep the pump on the whole time, which seems unnecessary and wasteful. I feel like it's not the logic that's faulty, it's the pump and pump location design, maybe.

  23. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateral_G View Post
    @Claudio and anyone else who's changed fuel pumps: is it normal to have fuel dripping out of the plastic connector which the fuel hose to the rail plugs into? I spent about 30-45 minutes trying to pull the hose off (had to use a screwdriver to really work it off), and immediately, fuel started dripping out of the connector. Picture shows the little pool of fuel that dripped out. I connected the hose back to prevent the drip.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I was worried there's too much fuel in the tank. I didn't wanna proceed to remove the ring and the seal for the pump assembly only to have fuel come sloshing out. The bike is on the side stand, and the fuel level gauge on the dash does say it's full, although (I believe) the gauge never starts dropping till about the half-tank level. I tried siphoning off some with a fuel hose I bought for the idle hose replacement, but it's too big I think (5/16 in. dia), so the fuel just kept dripping out.
    Is this normal, or do I have too much fuel?
    The hose in your picture is the output side of the fuel pump. It connects the output of the pump to the injectors. If the bike has been running recently, there will be some pressure in that line and a small amount of fuel in the hose. It will drain out on its own. I usually plug it temporarily with something to minimize the fuel. You should not generally have fuel coming up/out of the plastic nipple.

    You do need to get the tank down to at least 50%. I would try to empty it as much as I can especially since you do not have a center stand to keep the bike more level before undoing the big ring off or you will have a fuel flood issue on your hands.The shape of the tank is such that when you remove that tank ring, the level may actually be above it (it slopes down from the rear of the bike and that area is near the low point).

    I usually leave that hose connected and just work on the bike if I recall correctly. Just cover the open fuel tank temporarily to avoid dropping stuff in there.

    I noticed that the previous owner is using a standard hose clamp. Those are less ideal for higher pressure fuel injection and I find them to be more fragile (don't trust them). If he also used them in the tank, I'd look at replacing those clamps with something designed for fuel injection systems (more even pressure/clamping). Like these
    Claudio
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  25. #68
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    Claudio is absolutely correct. Do not take out the pump until you drain out a bunch more gas. A quarter tank at most should be in there so that you don't make a big mess. The top of the pump there is about half way down (gravity wise) of the tank. The tank extends up toward the back seat.

    I've had my pump out three times. I remove the hose you reference and plug it with a stubby screwdriver, but I've never had fuel come out of the little connector. That's Archimedes' way of telling you there is still too much gas in the tank... That hose clamp is certainly not original as Claudio also stated. I would personally be okay with a stainless clamp like that one, but Claudio's viewpoint is certainly valid. That's why fuel lines don't come with that kind of clamp.

    Other excellent points to reiterate is to make sure it's level. Getting the gasket to seat properly when you put the pump back in is very challenging. I know because I thought I had done it properly, but learned the hard way while filling the tank at the gas pump (after the repair) that I did not have it perfectly sealed. Talk about an embarrassing mess!

    Also be aware that the ring doesn't really seal it. It just holds everything in place. You will have to break the seal after you get the ring off. A hammer and big screwdriver should get the ring off without much work. Also be careful when removing the whole unit because the odd shape of the tank makes it tough to get it out without bumping/bending the fuel level float and the wires for its potentiometer. Same hold true with putting it all back in. It requires twisting and leaning it around the curve of the tank. While you have the pump out, dry the fuel filter, then vacuum it assuming you will reuse it. Also shine a flashlight into the bottom of the tank and look for any gunk that might need removing.

    And don't be like me. Wear gloves fort his job. Your skin will thank you.
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    Siphoning gas is a challenge because of the difficulty of getting a hose down deep and the risk that the hose will damage the delicate fuel lever sender float mechanism. I always made sure to start with a low fuel level in the first place.

    You need not pull the hose off the plastic spigot. Just remove the two screws and pull it away from the cover. It uses o-rings to seal to the cover.
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    As stated earlier use proper fuel injection hose clamps throughout. While you are in there change the fuel filter. It is a Mahle KL 315. If you change the filter be aware that it has an o-ring seal at the top. Don't lose it. The new filter does not come with the o-ring.

    If you change the pump a good replacement is the HighFlow HFP-382B.

    Videos to watch:
    https://youtu.be/dfIeIjYyBj4
    https://youtu.be/D4k7XOOV1uE

    Although the videos are for the GS the internals are the same.

    Because of the many reported faults with the early aluminum-coloured controllers if it were me I would certainly install the later black replacement.

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  29. #70
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    I changed the pump, and, as you all said, it wasn't easy. I do have some questions, the biggest of which is about the o-ring(s) that bmwroadsterca mentioned above. I checked the previous filter, and well as the protrusion that the filter outlet plugs into, and didn't see any o-rings. I included a picture of the previous filter. I'm assuming by "top," that's the end of the filter that was referred to because the other end (where the hose from the pump connects to) surely can't have an o-ring? I checked in and around the area, and didn't find any o-rings that might have popped off when I removed the old filter, either. I didn't remove the plastic spigot, only the fuel hose that connects to it and goes to the rail. And the opening that the filter outlet plugged into wasn't white, it was black and didn't seem to have any o-rings on it either.
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    Due to this concern, I haven't installed/tightened everything completely. Seating the pump was pretty tricky. I almost seated it perfectly without the gasket popping up anywhere, but then realized the tab on the right that mates with the tank was a little misaligned. I then tried applying a slight sideward force with a plier to the tab on the top (near the controller etc.) and found out the hard way (i.e. by breaking it off) that those tabs are made of plastic. Whoever designed this whole pump assembly and the installation method into the tank surely deserves the highest engineering honors.
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    Other questions/concerns/comments I had:
    1. The two hose clamps are at different clamping positions. The one on the filter is almost fully tightened. It looks like there's a gap in the picture, but it seemed snug enough when I wiggled it after tightening all the way. Both clamps are 11-13mm ones.
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    2. Out of the 3 strainers provided with the filter, I could only fit one (as shown in pic). The orange one wasn't fitting because it was hitting the white pump holder. The bag-like one that's similar to the old one didn't have the adapter that goes from its wide diameter to the pump's inlet diameter, and I couldn't get the adapter off of the old strainer.
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    3. The tank seems clean enough to me. There are 1-2 little things, but I didn't wanna stick my hand in there coz I thought it'd introduce more dirt from my gloves.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    4. The tabbed ring that screws onto the outside of the tank on top of the pump assembly is pretty rusted on some sides. It was a little hard to get off, but I'm assuming this isn't a big concern?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Regarding the controller replacement, @bmwroadster, I'll look for one on eBay and see if I can find a black one for a decent price. What kind of faults does it usually cause? And @DJ123, is an ICV recalibration required every time it's disassembled, or only when it's replaced with a new part? I followed mokkybear's guide as suggested by Cramer, and I don't remember reading that a recalibration would be required. I'll check again, though.

    Previous pump: Click image for larger version. 

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by lateral_G; 1 Week Ago at 06:59 PM. Reason: Picture alignment

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  31. #71
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    The only feedback I have is that the ring will be fine. Sand it down and coat with a little oil and it shouldn't corrode much more. Interesting about the different filters. I just reused the same one after drying and vacuumed it. Mine looks like the last of your 3 pics (long sand skinny). I don't remember any o rings where it attaches, but it's been several years since I had it out. I guess anything that fits snug will work as long as it fits in the bottom of the tank.

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  33. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateral_G View Post
    And the opening that the filter outlet plugged into wasn't white, it was black and didn't seem to have any o-rings on it either.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    You are definitely missing an o-ring that sits between the fuel filter and the plastic pump assembly. once installed, it sits inside the "well" of the filter itself (exactly in the spot shown in your photo), sealing the filter to the plastic tube that is inserted in it. Anything approaching that size will work (doesn't need to be perfectly sized). Given that the previous owner had a non-standard hose clamp fitted on the outside, there is evidence that he did some service in there and your o-ring for the fuel filter disappeared then. I think I've swapped 4 F800 pumps over the years and the o-ring is definitely in that spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by lateral_G View Post
    1. The two hose clamps are at different clamping positions. The one on the filter is almost fully tightened. It looks like there's a gap in the picture, but it seemed snug enough when I wiggled it after tightening all the way. Both clamps are 11-13mm ones.
    Based on the size you used, you should be just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by lateral_G View Post
    2. Out of the 3 strainers provided with the filter, I could only fit one (as shown in pic). The orange one wasn't fitting because it was hitting the white pump holder. The bag-like one that's similar to the old one didn't have the adapter that goes from its wide diameter to the pump's inlet diameter, and I couldn't get the adapter off of the old strainer.
    Provided the old one is in good condition. (no big rips/holes), I would use it to ensure there is a good fit. Thats the one part with the aftermarket pumps that they don't see to get right. The one you have fitted should also be fine to use as long as you are confident it is not going to impede the float/fuel level device.

    Quote Originally Posted by lateral_G View Post
    4. The tabbed ring that screws onto the outside of the tank on top of the pump assembly is pretty rusted on some sides. It was a little hard to get off, but I'm assuming this isn't a big concern?
    Just clean the inside "threaded" surface if it has any corrosion on it to ease installation, otherwise no worries. This is a "design feature" of the F800, a built in mini-swimming pool under the seat where water can collect, especially after washing or extreme rain.

    Quote Originally Posted by lateral_G View Post
    What kind of faults does [the controller] usually cause? ....I don't remember reading that a recalibration would be required.
    I think the faulty controllers would either overheat and simply quit (intermittently). No calibration of the fuel pump or controller is required (not an option).

    Speaking of calibration, I think you had replaced the idle air control valve a while back. That definitely should be calibrated.
    Claudio
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    Just to clarify, the o-rings I mentioned several times, and (I think) bmwroadsterca mentioned, is between the Mahle fuel filter and the plastic spigot up top that connects to the fuel hose to the rail. If I understood it correctly, I believe they said the o-ring should fit on the black plastic protrusion that plugs into the filter here:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    You're right, Cramer, with regards to the nylon strainer not having any o-rings. I was talking about this plastic bit:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    You'll notice that that bit is missing on the new strainer I got with the pump. So I couldn't use that one, which is unfortunate because the old one fit much more firmly than the one I have fitted (the white one with the hard plastic skeleton in the second of the 3 pics).

    Edit: just noticed Claudio's response. Well, looks like I'll have to go on another part-hunt to the closest auto-parts store tomorrow.
    I didn't replace the idle air control valve, just disassembled it, cleaned it, re-greased it, and put it back together. Does that still require a calibration?

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    If that o-ring is missing you are pretty much guaranteed to have insufficient fuel pressure.

    The aluminum-coloured controllers were not well sealed and would corrode internally and fail to power the pump.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by lateral_G View Post
    Just to clarify, the o-rings I mentioned several times, and (I think) bmwroadsterca mentioned, is between the Mahle fuel filter and the plastic spigot up top that connects to the fuel hose to the rail. If I understood it correctly, I believe they said the o-ring should fit on the black plastic protrusion that plugs into the filter here:
    Exactly correct!!


    Quote Originally Posted by lateral_G View Post
    You'll notice that that bit is missing on the new strainer I got with the pump. So I couldn't use that one, which is unfortunate because the old one fit much more firmly than the one I have fitted (the white one with the hard plastic skeleton in the second of the 3 pics).
    I had the same dilemma with a few kits. I ended up using my original strainer to ensure a good fit. I your original one is in good shape, I would use that.


    Quote Originally Posted by lateral_G View Post
    I didn't replace the idle air control valve, just disassembled it, cleaned it, re-greased it, and put it back together. Does that still require a calibration?
    Calibration is less critical with a simple clean/replace but is really easy to do ..nothing to take apart (worth trying/doing). The GS-911 can do it and I suspect your motoscan can calibrate it too. I would focus on the fuel pump issue first to see if that solves your issue.
    Claudio
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    I took another crack at it after acquiring a couple of different sizes of o-rings. One of them was a 1/4"x7/16" (I think) and the other was a 1/4"x3/8". I tried installing the filter with both of them, but it only went on fully with the thinner (i.e. 3/8) one. The filter installation was a little firmer this time around, with the o-ring added, so I understand what you meant @bmwroadsterca. I was actually thinking that the issue might not be insufficient pressure (since the ECU has closed-loop control of it), but maybe more wear of the pump because it'd have to pump more/longer to achieve the same rail pressure. Or maybe it'll be both, who knows.
    Pictures of the two o-rings I tested on the filter outlet:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    @Claudio, I decided to go with the new strainer I showed above in the picture, because it seemed to be on OK. I feel like neither the gasoline in the tank nor any jolts from bumps in the road etc. can really transfer a high enough force to that part of the assembly to knock it off.
    It took me literally 8-9 attempts to insert the assembly into the tank opening without any part of the gasket sticking up. Pressing the assembly down fully into place was also pretty inconvenient; the plastic between the pump controller and the plastic spigot seemed very flimsy, and there was no other place to really get a good push on it. I also added a little bit of copper-slip grease all around the inside of the tabbed metal ring that goes on top of the whole thing.
    I turned the ignition on to check that everything is OK, and it seemd a little quieter than with the previous pump. That one was making a more higher-pitched sound. I checked the previous pump more closely and discovered that it was the same one (Quantum HFP-382B), so i guess I can expect this one to fail in about 3-4 years as well.

    Since I have the professional license on Motoscan anyway, I'll take a crack at the ICV recalibration as well (probably in a couple days). The idle seemed decent enough last time, but maybe that will eliminate the stray stutters I exeprienced here and there.

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    I should have mentioned earlier that installation goes easier if dielectric grease (or similar rubber compatible grease) is applied the the big round lid seal.

    Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

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    Be sure to report back if all this works for you. We're rooting for you!

    Also, fingers crossed when you fill the tank...

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  46. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccramerusc View Post
    Be sure to report back if all this works for you. We're rooting for you!
    Definitely rooting for you too!

    If this solves it, your hard work will have paid off and you are now more intimately familiar with your bike (silver lining).
    Claudio
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    Well, gents, I took the same route as about a week ago when the pump fault appeared and the engine shut off while coasting in gear. No such issues today. The idle seemed to hesitate a little when I was leaving (i.e. cold engine), but I don't know whether that's actually the bike or just my hypochondria. Even when coasting to a red light, I was checking if the engine is still running by blipping the throttle (I usually don't do that when downshifting). I think it'll take me a while to regain confidence in the bike.

    @Cramer, if I understand the fuel leak you had, it's not necessarily due to the rate of flow while pumping gas, but due to the fuel level rising high enough that it found the gap(s) between the gasket and the tank, right? If so, then I think I'm fine because I refilled all the fuel I drained before changing the pump. So it should have risen up to the level of the gasket already. I didn't see or smell any leaks.

    @bmwroadsterca, I thought of something like that briefly, but since the fuel comes in contact with the gasket, I was a little worried about the grease washing off/dissolving into the fuel over time. Anyway, I'll keep it in mind for the next time.

    I also recalibrated the idle actuator. It's one of the few service functions Motoscan can apparently do right now. There were only 2 other service functions under the Engine MOT ECU (others were idle deactivation and max RPM restriction, I think). Just a note for anyone considering Motoscan and upgrading to paid licenses - sequentially upgrading costs much more than just purchasing Ultimate outright. I believe I paid a total of $62 for sequentially upgrading from Basic to Lite to Professional to Ultimate. And, if I remember correctly, direct purchase of Ultimate was around $45 or something like that. I know for sure (because I took screenshots) that upgrading to Ultimate from Lite was around $37, but upgrading to Professional and then to Ultimate cost about $45 ($18 + $27). The app also doesn't specify what license is required for something, only shows whether or not a certain feature is available with the current license. For example, if one goes to the idle calibration function with a Lite license and presses 'Calibrate,' the app doesn't say 'Ultimate license required,' it just says 'Not available with Lite license.'
    I know the $ amounts above are very small compared to a GS911, and I'm also sort of happy that it goes to an independent developer, but I'm not happy with the lack of transparency because the website just says there will be a "slight price difference" when upgrading sequentially.

    I think I can't declare the problem solved until I test it more exhaustively and maybe till the fan kicks on etc., but for now, I think the symptoms have at least been addressed enough to the point where I can do so. Now onto the two other things I need to do, i.e. valve cover gasket, and steering head bearing and fork oil/spring check due to unrelated issues.

    I can't thank all you gentlemen enough for all your time, effort, and inputs. I was ready to throw in the towel and get it towed to a dealer, but it seems I've averted it at least for now. I hope my documentation and pictures here would provide a good resource to anyone who experiences such issues in the future. And I hope I can pay this kindness forward or back in some way in the future.

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  50. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateral_G View Post
    I can't thank all you gentlemen enough for all your time, effort, and inputs. I was ready to throw in the towel and get it towed to a dealer, but it seems I've averted it at least for now. I hope my documentation and pictures here would provide a good resource to anyone who experiences such issues in the future. And I hope I can pay this kindness forward or back in some way in the future.
    I hope you've solved it. Thinking about this a bit more, I think you have. That missing o-ring likely caused loss of pressure and/or the pump to work overtime (overheating and/or failing prematurely). Keep running local errands to build confidence in the fix and do report back to let us know how things faired.
    Claudio
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    Took a longer (~20 miles) ride yesterday with about 6 miles at highway speeds. That first stutter after the first time I come to a stop definitely wasn't just my imagination. It seems to have something to do with engine temperature, because when I started it after about 10-15 mins of stopping at a grocery store, it wasn't that bad. After that first stutter, everything was fine and all subsequent launches from red lights were OK.
    I checked for fault codes and found nothing. So, I decided to jump firmly into the deep end today and went on a longer trip of around 200 miles total to some twisties (or the Ohio version of them, anyway) with a friend. I don't think I noticed any stuttering anywhere, although I was also being extra-careful with the clutch and giving it a bit more gas while taking off as well. By now, I think most of the injection system cleaner I added a while ago should've also gone through the system, so maybe it helped a bit?
    No problems during the trip, except for the bike trying to cook my left thigh for dinner while I was riding it.

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    My 2007 F800ST idles poorly and sputters when I run gasoline that has ethanol in it. After switching solely to the 'recreational premium gas' with zero alcohol my idle problems went away. My understanding is that the bike idles pretty lean to start with and alcohol in the gas (up to 15% here) effectively leans it more causing the rough behavior.

    Since these bikes can't be turned over by the rear tire after the engine stops it is important to do what we can to make sure they don't die while downshifting.

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