MRA x-creen revisited - BMW F800 Riders Forum & Registry



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  1. #1
    flyrider's Avatar
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    For anyone who has successfully used the MRA X-creen on their GT, I'm curious which height and angle position you found most effective. I've fiddled with this, and while I find a position that seems effective, my compulsive nature forces me to try to improve on that by changing it some more. In the end, I forget where I started and take it off. But I think it is helpful and don't want to give up!

    Thanks.

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  3. #2
    flyrider's Avatar
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    I just went out to the garage and played around with X-creen positions, during which process I realized what a dumb question I'd asked. There's no way to know without more experimentation.

    So no need to answer. I'll be back if I can find something good here. All this bike needs is some diffusion of the wind, I think, not necessarily a higher, wider or technically complicated solution.

    Windscreen threads for the GT are like soap operas...you could leave them for 5 years, come back and the plot will have changed not one iota.


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    Quote Originally Posted by flyrider View Post
    ...All this bike needs is some diffusion of the wind, I think, not necessarily a higher, wider or technically complicated solution. ...
    So you're saying you want to make it work like a Madstad works?

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    flyrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    So you're saying you want to make it work like a Madstad works?

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    Exactly! Except without the Madstad.

  8. #5
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    "DIVIDE, AND CONQUER"

    Just back from a test of the MRA X-creen, performed with a different concept in mind. Wind problems on bikes like the GT seem to center around the turbulence created by the windscreen. In doing some reading, I came to the conclusion that I was approaching the solution to the problem of turbulence from the wrong perspective. I was trying to eliminate wind noise, when that (in reality) is not possible, unless you're in a car (even then you can still hear some noise), or behind a mammoth windscreen that blocks the wind. The problem with blocking the wind is...it gets HOT! That's why I couldn't use the Madstad...it did a good job of blocking wind, but even with the flow underneath it, the Madstad cooked me.

    I mounted the MRA and went for a ride, with the idea that no longer was I trying to eliminate wind noise by blocking it, but - rather - I was going to "diffuse" the wind coming into and over the stock windscreen. By diffusing it, I was attempting to "break up" the wind into smaller (force-wise) components, reasoning that if the wind force is LESS, the turbulence would also be less. After trying a few settings, I really got into the diffusion idea and hit on a setting that not only divided the wind striking the windscreen(s), but it allowed plenty of airflow. The clue that I'd hit the "sweet spot" was when I realized my shoulders were no longer tense and my whole body was relaxed; I can tell you...this was never the case before.

    With the setting that worked, I tried various speeds...60-70 (prime cruising speed), 80 and 90 mph. The turbulent buffeting was virtually eliminated. I heard the wind, but it was a soft flow, like a smooth sine wave, unlike with the OEM screen alone, which created what I'd call a "sawtooth" noise pattern...very fatiguing and causing much body tension, to say nothing of headaches!

    The MRA X-creen might look a little odd on the bike but it doesn't ruin the aesthetics at all, to my mind; the bottom line, though, is...does it work? For me...oh,yeah.

    I have the clamp-on, tinted, "Sport" version of the MRA. It looks quite good with the tinted OEM windscreen.

    Happy days...

    EDIT: Adding some photos of the installed MRA, and a comment: I still think the VStream "Sport" windscreen is a better screen than the OEM, but while it altered the wind flow and improved the noise situation, it didn't eliminate the turbulent buffeting entirely. That's where the MRA seems a better solution - the elimination of the fatiguing turbulence.
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    Last edited by flyrider; 08-01-20 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Add photos

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    I have learned to live with the noise by the use of good earplugs.....and either the MRA or Puig deflector on either the stock windshield or the Ermax Sport screen. The deflector does smooth out the airflow, and with my deflector mounted at the tallest position it moves the air from neck level up to my eye level. (On really hot days at slow speeds I can adjust the deflector to blow air down onto my shoulders to keep me a bit cooler).

    I will have to try your lower position and see if it works better than what I am currently doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumpin View Post
    I have learned to live with the noise by the use of good earplugs.....and either the MRA or Puig deflector on either the stock windshield or the Ermax Sport screen. The deflector does smooth out the airflow, and with my deflector mounted at the tallest position it moves the air from neck level up to my eye level. (On really hot days at slow speeds I can adjust the deflector to blow air down onto my shoulders to keep me a bit cooler).

    I will have to try your lower position and see if it works better than what I am currently doing.
    I've tried the deflector in a high position and find it only increases turbulence. That's why I started looking at whether a different approach might work...diffusing, rather than deflecting, the wind. It seems to be the case...

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    I have the Madstad 20" screen. I'm 5'6". My GT came with the OEM screen and I took an X-Creen Tour with me when I picked the bike up 350 miles from my home. Try as I might, I could not find a suitable setting for high-speed riding on that ride home.

    I played with lots of settings on the Madstad, but still got helmet buffeting at high speeds, and lots of heat. I decided to lower the screen and add the X-creen. After some experimentation, I'm satisfied. The only thing I might change is the make it a bolt-on instead of clamp on. I have the X-creen on several other bikes. I'm a believer.
    2013 BMW F800GT, 2013 Triumph Bonneville, 2017 Honda CTX700D DCT 

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    Interesting, I have the same screen set up, though clear screen (wonder if that makes a difference ). Mine still creates a lot of noise. Anyway, I’ve not tried mine at the same angle, think I’ll give this a go and see how it goes

    Thanks for posting the photos

  15. #10
    flyrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    Interesting, I have the same screen set up, though clear screen (wonder if that makes a difference ). Mine still creates a lot of noise. Anyway, I’ve not tried mine at the same angle, think I’ll give this a go and see how it goes

    Thanks for posting the photos
    I previously had installed the MRA and gave up on it...twice. I kept approaching it from the perspective that I needed to get the air "over" my helmet, and to do that the MRA had to be higher. When I realized that diffusing the air flow might lessen the turbulence, I re-installed the MRA and set it as you see in the photos. I did try a number of combinations and always came back to what you see. If you think about how the air hits the screen, you can see that the way I have it divides the airflow...the bulk hits the OEM screen, but at the top portion of the screen, the MRA intercepts the air before it hits the main screen and sends it a bit higher, while air hitting the OEM screen flows under the MRA and does just what a Madstad does...

    You mentioned the angle...that is crucial in my opinion. If you look at the side photo shot, you can see the angle of the MRA is the same as the angle of the OEM screen. If I set the MRA even a little more upright, the noise increases.

    The key realization I had was that the issue common to the OEM screen is turbulence, not wind noise, per se. With the wind divided (diffused) the force of the wind coming over the screen(s) is lessened and turbulence minimized. I still hear wind, but now I don't have that awful chaotic noise caused by turbulence. I still need earplugs (custom), but as I said in a prior post, the proof that this was an improvement was the relaxtion I felt while riding. Before this set-up, I was always tense in the shoulders...and everywhere...due the discordant noise. Now? Not so much!

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    I have tried the screen in various positions, those that seem to work best, as you've pointed out, are where the MRA is parallel with the OEM screen. I think it works best as you have positioned now, but I also think it looks better and still works where it is positioned as low and close to parallel to the OEM.

    Do you still have the clear OEM screen? I was thinking it would be interesting to enlarge the two cut outs at the bottom of the screen to see if increasing the airflow through there improves (or not) to turbulence as more air flow there should reduce the vacuum created. I know I'm not clever enough with a jigsaw! However, wonder if it's worth finding an engineering company locally who might cut to the same shape, just twice the size.

  17. #12
    flyrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    I have tried the screen in various positions, those that seem to work best, as you've pointed out, are where the MRA is parallel with the OEM screen. I think it works best as you have positioned now, but I also think it looks better and still works where it is positioned as low and close to parallel to the OEM.

    Do you still have the clear OEM screen? I was thinking it would be interesting to enlarge the two cut outs at the bottom of the screen to see if increasing the airflow through there improves (or not) to turbulence as more air flow there should reduce the vacuum created. I know I'm not clever enough with a jigsaw! However, wonder if it's worth finding an engineering company locally who might cut to the same shape, just twice the size.
    I do still have the clear screen, and that's an interesting idea. I couldn't do it, but there are companies here that cut plexiglass, so it could be done. But for now, I like what I have. It divides the airflow, weakening the force (and therefore the turbulence), and the space between the MRA and the OEM allows air to flow underneath the MRA, in a way that mimics what a Madstad does (without the Madstad, of course). The fact that I now ride "relaxed" is evidence enough that something good is happening with this set-up.

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  19. #13
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    Flyrider,

    Hello! Is your MRA X-creen the "Sport" or the "Tour"?

    Thanks,

    Seedman

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    flyrider,

    I see from one of your previous posts that it is the "Sport" version. Where did you get the tinted OEM screen?

    Seedman

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    I had a MadStad on my F800GT which was nice in that it protected me from wind and rain but still left a noisy flow at eye level and up. When I got my new bike (Tracer GT) had the same issues you mention - buffeting and noise. I endured it for 2,000 miles before I got back home and had a pretty good idea of what I wanted to do. Thought about the MadStad but having read flyrider's review of the MRA decided to give it a go. Got the touring version but not the Vario edition, looking to save my money in case it didn't work as was thinking MadStad if it didn't work. The MRA worked as you describe, a nice smooth flow that hit me at the top of the shoulders and up. Decided to give an Xscreen like device from Amazon a try. It really does make a difference and for the reasons you describe. My windscreen is a 2 position manually adjustable and in the higher position has a nice gap at the base which IMO give it something of a MadStad functionality. Have tried with the Screen parallel and tilted up one "notch". Level it does a good job of smoothing and directing part of the flow higher and over my head but still have enough flow to the helmet for hot weather. I find that I can ride without earplugs for a few miles on the interstate and at lower speeds can ride for a long time. On long trips always use earbuds for sound and noise damping. Final judgement is still in process as will need to take a few day long rides to really see how well it works but very happy with the setup now.

    A different bike (Tracer GT) but very similar results. IMO MRA does their aero homework on their products and they work well. Got my MRA from Twisted Throttle who were very quick to ship.

    Had to laugh at the comparison of windscreen threads to soap operas. I actually read them and am open to new ideas which lead me to the MRA on my new bike thanks to flyrider.

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    Good to hear about good results with the MRA and other wings. On both my GTs and previous bikes I messed around with taller screens and always ended up back with the standard because of increased turbulence and noise. In the end, I'm with Flyrider. I think that smoothing out the airflow rather than blocking it has to be the way to go. So think I'll give the MRA a try. Additionally, on the GT I found that blocking the air with a higher screen put more weight on my wrists due to less wind support on my chest. A couple of years ago, I had an F800R as a loan bike . I was absolutely amazed at how quiet and smooth the airflow was compared to my GT. It was so quiet I actually considered selling the GT and buying an R. The only problem was that once you reached 70 mpg on the R, the wind blast became tiring. So, a screen that deflects some (not all) of the wind but is quiet really appeals.
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  23. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seedman View Post
    flyrider,

    I see from one of your previous posts that it is the "Sport" version. Where did you get the tinted OEM screen?

    Seedman
    Sorry for the delay in replying...haven't check in for a couple of days. I got the tinted screen from Sierra BMW.

    As for the MRA...I did finally realize that I was probably approaching wind noise from the wrong perspective. Having tried higher screens and finding (as others have) that they create new problems, I decided to give the MRA a try. What I've concluded is that you CAN'T eliminate wind completely without blocking it completely, but when yo do that you get too many complications that didn't exist before. The MRA works best for me angled at the same angle as the top 1/3 of my stock (tinted) screen. It seems counter-intuitive, but moving it more vertical INCREASES the noise level, because what was a laminar flow gets suddenly pushed in a new direction and "tumbles" over the screen, rather than flowing. The gap between the MRA and the stock screen allows air to flow through it, which helps keep the air over the top of the MRA from collapsing into a low pressure pocket.

    It isn't perfect...by it's the most elegant solution I've found so far.
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    fly rider,

    Thanks for the info. I know from another thread you had started last year that you were using the V-Stream sport/tour screen. I guess you ultimately didn't enjoy that either?

    I started with A Madstad and used that for about a year. Could never get it quite right as I could on the one I had on my F700GS. Then I also tried all three heights of the V-Stream. The sport/tour was the better of the three but still found the wind noise a little loud. At the moment, I am riding the bike "naked" using no windscreen. I simply have the Madstad mounting plate only filling the gap. It's the smoothest air so far but no wind protection.

    Perhaps I can give the OEM with the Screen a shot.

    Thanks!

    Seedman

  25. #19
    flyrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seedman View Post
    fly rider,

    Thanks for the info. I know from another thread you had started last year that you were using the V-Stream sport/tour screen. I guess you ultimately didn't enjoy that either?

    I started with A Madstad and used that for about a year. Could never get it quite right as I could on the one I had on my F700GS. Then I also tried all three heights of the V-Stream. The sport/tour was the better of the three but still found the wind noise a little loud. At the moment, I am riding the bike "naked" using no windscreen. I simply have the Madstad mounting plate only filling the gap. It's the smoothest air so far but no wind protection.

    Perhaps I can give the OEM with the Screen a shot.

    Thanks!

    Seedman
    I liked the VStream "Sport" screen a lot. It created a larger pocket of quiet air behind it than the stock screen, but I gradually became aware that my shoulders were being battered a bit by somewhat turbulent wind being thrown off the sides of the screen. I switched back and forth a few times and concluded that the gain in the size of the calm pocket wasn't enough for me to offset the shoulder problem, and the increase in quiet wasn't as great as I'd initially concluded. HOWEVER...it's a good screen and from time to time I'm tempted to try it again. But with the OEM tinted screen and the tinted MRA "sport" X-creen (which matches the OEM tint nicely), I find I'm quite relaxed on the bike. Sometimes my custom earplugs don't seal as well as they should, and I experience some noise, but overall (as I said earlier in this thread) the objective was removal of buffeting/turbulence-induced noise, and it's done that.

    Conclusion: The MRA works well, looks pretty decent and once you tell yourself nothing is "perfect", it's a keeper. I've had the bike to 100 mph with it and the ride was good. The ideal speed for cruising with this combo is 60-70 mph, and that's really a fine speed if you're having an enjoyable "cruise". When I want to beat the twisty canyons mercilessly (well, not exactly, but still...), I take the RR.

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    I agree......the MRA or Puig deflector do work well, and make reduce the amount of wind and turbulence. For me they move the strong wind up a few inches and get it up away from my neck and chin and up around forehead level (this will vary with your height and what windshield you have mounted).

    It took me several windshield tries to get what I believe is a good compromise for me.

    1) Stock windscreen - wind hits my shoulders and neck and it works fine at speeds below 60mph - at highway speeds it is too noisy and tries to lift my helmet.
    2) V-Stream Touring - Big and heavy. My bodywork would flex excessively when I hit big bumps and lots of engine heat at my legs.
    3) BMW Tall Windscreen - A nice windscreen and it fits very well and does reduce the wind. It is a nice windscreen for cold weather riding - too much heat for summer riding in hot weather. It fits great and bolts on just like the stock windscreen.
    4) Stock windscreen cut down - I cut a stock windscreen down to a height just above the bodywork. Lots of air on the chest and shoulders.....nice for summer riding but a bit too much wind and helmet noise.
    5)Ermax Sport - This windscreen has a couple very minor fit issues (The rubber grommets for the side don't fit unless you cut down the windscreen thickness by beveling the plastic, the bottom doesn't match the profile of the headlight exactly, and the center spacer they provided was far too short and I had to get something from the hardware store that provided a taller spacing). The lightly tinted version has a very dark bottom and eliminates the headlight glare and keeps the sun from getting the instruments hot. It is taller than the stock windscreen and moves the airflow up a bit - a little bit more leg heat than the stock windscreen.
    6) V-Stream Sport - The tinted color and short winscreen make the bike look a lot more sporty. I got too much wind blast and too much helmet noise.
    7) MRA X-Screen or Puig deflector. I have tried both the MRA X screen and Puig deflectors. The MRA has a bit nicer hing arrangement - the mounting points are cast into the clear screen and the curve seems to match most F800GT windshields pretty well. The Puig has a bit lessor quality hinge pieces and the curve seems to be a bit too flat for the curve of most F800GT windscreens. Both of these deflectors do work and move the wind blast up a few inches and reduce turbulence. With the Puig hinges you can cut and use any windscreen plastic to make a new deflector in any size/shape you want......you can't do that with the MRA.

    My current setup is the Ermax Sport screen with some modifications. I tried the Puig deflector - but the shape was wrong to match the top of the Ermax screen, and the curve of the deflector was too flat. I cut the top of the Ermax screen to make the top more flat and reduce the dished area at the top, and I cut out a new clear plastic piece from the stock F800GT windscreen using the leftover piece from the stock windscreen I gut down......the shape of the windscreen and the shape of the deflector now match much better. I have tried the deflector in various positions - for me the best positing is low and back.....I tried the low and forward position that Flyrider uses - and it works as well.

    I am pretty happy with the setup I have right now. If I changed anything it would be to open up the area at the bottom above the headlight to get more airflow behind the windscreen.....I believe this would help reduce the turbulence of the air coming off the top of the windscreen and also help to reduce the heat at my legs on hot days.

    NOTE: I have posted photos of the Ermax with the MRA mounted upside down to better match the curve of the windscreen - once the sun comes up I will take photos of the revised windscreen and Puig deflector modified with a section of a stock windscreen for the clear deflector.
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    Last edited by Thumpin; 10-12-20 at 11:06 AM.

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  28. #21
    flyrider's Avatar
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    Thumpin, that's a hell of a write-up...thanks! The effort you've put into this will help others shortcut the process of getting a good windscreen result...

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