F800GS insert key in ignition - acts like dead! - BMW F800 Riders Forum & Registry



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  1. #1
    berils's Avatar
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    Hi guys,
    This is the last chance forum i guess, as already posted this issue in FB group i need your smart heads to try to solve this issue!
    As I got this beauty(F800GSA;2014), I wanted to check if battery is good, is everything well with wires, so I took off battery, it is good (13.2V when off) , and wires are in good condition.
    BUT, now we have very big problem.... after putting back battery as it was before, now bike acts like dead (video attached)
    When we took of + wire from battery and put it back, for like ~10sec. on display appears odometer count and clock, and nothing else.
    I even tested starter relay, there are 12V, but when ignition is ON position in "relay signal" wires is total 0V .
    Only one thread I found which is very similar to mine, but i don't know if its worth to order it and wait for it.(as this relay looks in good condition)

    video here:
    imgur. com /a/q0efeEd

    Maybe somebody had experience like this?

    Thanks in advance guys!
    Last edited by berils; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:50 AM.

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  3. #2
    Richard230's Avatar
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    I have had more than one battery that showed a good voltage but couldn't power much other than the screen. Not even the lights. The first thing I would do is to load test the battery. If it is putting out decent amps, then I have no other ideas. Maybe hooking your bike up to a GS911 or similar gadget might show something being off?
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  4. #3
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    Can you provide a working link to the video? What is IDK?

    I second what Richard230 set. Load test the battery!

    /Guenther
    2017 F700GS - I wish it had a drive shaft 

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  6. #4
    berils's Avatar
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    Hi guys!

    Ok, i should definetly try another battery which i have!
    I will try to hookup gs911(yellow cheap edition) but only next friday.

    I have not enough posts so i cant insert video links, so there are spaces inbetween:
    imgur. com/a/q0efeEd

  7. #5
    Melbourne, Australia IanA is offline F800Riders.org Supporter
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    IDK is "I Don't Know" , Guenther. Bloody English language...

  8. #6
    guenner's Avatar
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    Thanks Ian!

    Berils, with the battery in the bike and only the plus lead connected, what is the voltage readout? How does it change when you have both leads connected and next, when you turn ignition on?

    /Guenther
    2017 F700GS - I wish it had a drive shaft 

  9. #7
    berils's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guenner View Post
    Thanks Ian!

    Berils, with the battery in the bike and only the plus lead connected, what is the voltage readout? How does it change when you have both leads connected and next, when you turn ignition on?

    /Guenther
    Hi Guenther,
    sorry for slangs before, but this is one of the best things which i need to test @ friday! (as bike is located @ parents barn )
    I definitely will update this topic with result, because thats how i found this f800riders community down!
    I got cheap edition of GS-911(yellow) ready for friday!

    p.s At thread creation I forgot to share case with very similar story! Sorry!
    f800riders.org /forum/showthread.php/306569-Help-Isolating-No-Start-No-Display-Issue-on-F800ST


    BR, Ivo.

  10. #8
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    Before you do anything else, follow this advice:

    Richard230

    I have had more than one battery that showed a good voltage but couldn't power much other than the screen. Not even the lights. The first thing I would do is to load test the battery.
    I have my thoughts about what fixed Claudio's problem...A NEW BATTERY.

    /Guenther
    2017 F700GS - I wish it had a drive shaft 

  11. #9
    berils's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guenner View Post
    Before you do anything else, follow this advice:



    I have my thoughts about what fixed Claudio's problem...A NEW BATTERY.

    /Guenther
    In my case battery cant be the issue, as there is no power changes no matter what. (But still i will try)
    Im discussing lately with many enthuziasts, and all sympthoms takes us to alarm system. It doesnt allow to start even initialization process! How to disable it?- Noone knows, it will be very cool if GS-911 will say somthing!

  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by berils View Post
    In my case battery cant be the issue, as there is no power changes no matter what. (But still i will try)
    Im discussing lately with many enthuziasts, and all sympthoms takes us to alarm system. It doesnt allow to start even initialization process! How to disable it?- Noone knows, it will be very cool if GS-911 will say somthing!
    That brings up an unpleasant memory with my 2007 R1200R: While I was coming back from a rally and had stopped at a rest stop, my bike would not start again. After trying various things, I had the bike transported (not "towed" ) to the nearest BMW dealership, 100 miles away. The problem turned out to be a defective sensor ring, located around the ignition switch, which senses the chip in the ignition key. Since it wasn't working and was not sensing the chip, the bike thought it was being stolen and refused to start. The solution was to remove the sensor ring (not an easy job) and replace it with a new ring. Then all was fine again. Apparently this was a major issue in 2008 and 2009 as BMW had received a batch of defective sensors. The sensor ring cost $100 at the time, but was later reduced to $50 as the demand for new sensors slowly died as repairs were being made for free under BMW's dime. I bought a new sensor ring just to be safe and carried it with me while riding but I never had another one fail since then.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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  14. #11
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    Richard, did the display still come on with the faulty antennae ring?

    On my F700GS I think it does and shows a "EWS" (Electronic ride-off locked) warning.

    /Guenther
    2017 F700GS - I wish it had a drive shaft 

  15. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by guenner View Post
    Richard, did the display still come on with the faulty antennae ring?

    On my F700GS I think it does and shows a "EWS" (Electronic ride-off locked) warning.

    /Guenther
    I can't recall for sure about the display but I am sure the "EWS" showed up. I won't forget those three letters. I am just really glad that the bike died at a rest stop that had a pay telephone.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  16. #13
    guenner's Avatar
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    Berils does not get anything!

    Like in this video https://youtu.be/A6yUPX7BcT0 from Claudio to which berils pointed us to above.

    It shows when connecting the 'good' battery with 13.3V the stepper motors which move the speed and RPM dials don't get enough current to do a full swing - just stutter. The LCD display doesn't need much current so it comes on cleanly.

    All an indication of a battery with an internal breakdown!

    A simple load test using a 12V bulb with at least 10W connected between the posts of the battery would show how many amps the battery can still produce.

    /Guenther
    2017 F700GS - I wish it had a drive shaft 

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  18. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by guenner View Post
    Berils does not get anything!

    Like in this video from Claudio to which berils pointed us to above.

    It shows when connecting the 'good' battery with 13.3V the stepper motors which move the speed and RPM dials don't get enough current to do a full swing - just stutter. The LCD display doesn't need much current so it comes on cleanly.

    All an indication of a battery with an internal breakdown!

    A simple load test using a 12V bulb with at least 10W connected between the posts of the battery would show how many amps the battery can still produce.

    /Guenther
    Guenner,

    I like the way you think! I'll keep in mind to attach 20W LED to + - leads.

    Richards230,

    If GS-911 will show nothing, and led bulb will be bright, faulty will be alarm/security system, and thats the first thing that i have to change. Key ring.
    Bought haynes repair manual, as there is no troubleshooting in BMW manual only pay&change.
    The problem is to get it to the nearest BMW dealer, as its 200km away and i dont have a trailer.



    But how the hell disconnecting battery can lead to faulty key ring/alarm unit/dead batt/or anything ? Life is life.

  19. #15
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    You'll need more than 20W -- try a 55W halogen headlight bulb.
    Take the battery off the bike. Leave for24 hrs..
    Use a multimeter to check battery voltage.
    If less than 11.66V battery is no good.
    If above 12V try to charge (max 2A) for 24 hrs.
    Then leave for 24 hrs and recheck battery voltage.
    13.5V to 13.8V is a good battery.
    Load it with a 55W bulb if battey voltage more than12.8V then battery ok.
    Or......... just buy and fit a new one.
    But. Then check the bike is charging the battery.
    F800GT in blue known as "The Blue Bat"
    Based near Peterborough, Cambridge, UK 

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  21. #16
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    My key ring sensor failed without warning. Everything has been working fine for thousands of miles and after riding several hours at freeway speeds I pulled over at a rest stop, took a rest, and when I returned to the bike it just wouldn't start and EWS was displayed on the dash. If you are not seeing EWS then my guess is that you are having some other sort of problem. But I have no idea what it might be. Perhaps calling the nearest BMW shop and asking them about the problem might be worth a try, even if they are 200 km away?

    I guess if there is no other solution you could rent a trailer or pickup truck to take your bike to a BMW dealer. But a better option if your bike is no longer under BMW's warranty is to see if you can find an independent BMW mechanic that is closer to your location.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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  23. #17
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    Sometimes a battery if faulty; gives voltage but not current. The best TESTER is a LOAD tester that applies a drain on the battery. Many of the AUTO Parts stores will test them for you.

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  25. #18
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    So today i had chance to try out whats really happening- definetly its not battery! As we changed to different one but with lower 12.8 Volts. "Original" baterry was 13.2V .
    GS-911 told that please check ignition(OFF), that means power was not delivered even to instrument panel.
    And 99% that it's not key or its module.
    Gemini alarm system we think it is, as I thought about that all BMW original parts are with BMW logo, and these remotes wasn't!
    I will definetly update this topic with pics, so next time somebody will face this type of issue, he can troubleshoot it quite faster/easier!

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  27. #19
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    So i called to gemini dealers/service, all they was saying: " We should see it to diagnose the problem"
    Ahhhh... so tomorrow we gonna take of all plastics to follow wires, and lets hope for finding this module.

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    I watched the video in the link above, in Guenther's post. That's exactly how my panel looks just after I connect both leads of my battery. The screen momentarily shows the time and odo reading and turns off in a few seconds.
    Is that what yours looks like with the battery fully connected after turning the key on? Also, was everything working fine, with all the lights lighting up and the dials sweeping fully, etc. before you took the battery out? I'm guessing the GS911 or any tool would not work without power. I have an OBDLink for Motoscan, and I know it doesn't.

    If I remember correctly, my personal experience with the keyring issue (on a 2010 F800ST) was that everything did power on, all the lights turned on, etc., but when I tried to crank the engine, it either didn't crank or it cut out when I put it in gear and then the EWS popped up on the screen. This was happening a lot when I used just one key initially, so now I use both keys - one is in the ignition slot, doing what the key is supposed to do, and the other just rests against the keyring. I'm guessing the sensor is unable to detect the key that's in the ignition slot, so the second key helps do that. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of having two keys, but it's not given me an EWS since.

    I have a potentially crazy idea that might be deadly to the bike, and also unsafe/deadly to you, so see if anyone has done this safely before (and if other forum members, who are more knowledgeable about auto/moto wiring harnesses, etc., know that this is stupid, please shoot it down):
    In order to rule out that the battery is the issue, would it be possible to connect a battery tender, preferably the 'junior' coz it can only provide 0.75 Amps max, directly to the battery leads of the bike's harness?

  29. #21
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    GEMINI THATCHAM APPROVED MOTORCYCLE CATEGORY ALARM

    - Alarm unit with two point immobilisation !!!

    Could this be responsible for the problem? Haha!!!

    /Guenther
    2017 F700GS - I wish it had a drive shaft 

  30. #22
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    These 2 days was really crazy for me!
    So we took of this gemini 953 module and today i will give it to authorized service with hope, that this block is faulty/dead/i dont give a duck! As it ruinned my weekends for about 200%!
    I deep dived into its manual : https://static.webshopapp.com/shops/...andleiding.pdf total timespend READING these several pages was about 4 hours! About 5 in trying to disarm/disable this miracle! I guess it's good alarm as we couldnt run the bike, but for duck sake, make it easier for owner to unlock it!
    I tried everything, but this alarm system wasn't acting 90% of time as it should in manual. I dont have any electronic key, and even hole where to place it. I tried to change the pin, add new remote, pin override, that all in mixed order and everything else in manual, all i got was two blinks after any procedure.
    Unfortunetly this block looks in good condition, and I really hope its software issue. If problem is in f800gs wiring, it means it will take another week to get it to this service, again several days untill they will find problem, and again $$$.
    Will update you guys soon!

  31. #23
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    So yes, the GEMINI Alarm system 953 block was faulty! This all issue was much harder to diagnose as last owner 100% said that this alarm is original, but it isnt!
    So this friday I will set up new block, and will update you with status!
    Thanks all for being involved/sharing your opinions!

    BR, Berils.

  32. #24
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    So problem is officially solved!
    Gemini alarm system block was getting water into scheme!

    Changed it, and everything is working as needed! Even alarm itself!
    Photo sent by service worker:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	119.6 KB 
ID:	372335
    Video how initializtion is happening:
    https://imgur.com/a/jumtowi

    And now my F800GSA is ready enjoy his life with me!These was freaking long weeks for me, and yes, thanks for all your support and ideas!
    Have a nice life!

    /Berils

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  34. #25
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    Perfect! Thanks for reporting back!

    /Guenther
    2017 F700GS - I wish it had a drive shaft 

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