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  1. #1
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    I heard on the news last night that the Texas state legislature has passed a bill that would make it legal for Texas residents to carry a gun in public without a permit and without any training on how to shoot or maintain a weapon. The Governor says that he will sign the bill into law. What I didn't hear was how young you could be to carry a big iron on your hip and if you could open carry into your high school. I sure wouldn't want to be an innocent bystander anywhere in an area where criminal activity is taking place in Texas.

    There are lots of bullets flying around every day in Oakland, CA, sometimes from automatic weapons and it seems as though many times the people that get shot are not the ones being aimed at but just bystanders as the criminals seem to be able to pull a trigger but are not very good when it comes to their aim. The shouldn't let criminals steal a gun until they get proper training how to use it.
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    Finally,. I think we are the 17 or 18 state to get CC. Law abiding citizens carrying to protect themselves. Awesomeness.

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    Illegal shootings only occur in places such as Oakland, Chicago, New York, Portland, and schools where criminals know their victims will be unarmed.

    Is not unusual to see open carry in a Walmart in Alabama. Permit is only required to conceal. We don't have shootings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by N4HHE View Post
    Illegal shootings only occur in places such as Oakland, Chicago, New York, Portland, and schools where criminals know their victims will be unarmed.

    Is not unusual to see open carry in a Walmart in Alabama. Permit is only required to conceal. We don't have shootings.
    What worries me are people carrying guns in a crowded urban setting that have bought them for personal protection but have never had any training on how to use them or how to hit what they are aiming at. Not a good combination.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by N4HHE View Post
    ....We don't have shootings.(in Alabama)
    You should double check this statement and correct as needed.



    ******
    Maybe this thread should be removed from general discussion and into the grown up, political/opinion realm?
    Concrete remains undefeated. 

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    What does this thread have to do with F800's? Do we really want to get into a Gun control/Gun rights discussion here? Take it to FarceBook. Learn to recognize a troll.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runmyownlife View Post
    You should double check this statement and correct as needed.



    ******
    Maybe this thread should be removed from general discussion and into the grown up, political/opinion realm?
    I know right, does a Google search not work in Alabama because I found plenty of stories to the contrary.

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    Richard230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randyjaco View Post
    What does this thread have to do with F800's? Do we really want to get into a Gun control/Gun rights discussion here? Take it to FarceBook. Learn to recognize a troll.
    I am mystified as to why you object to the subject matter of this thread. It is posted in the General Discussion forum where subjects are discussed that do not necessarily pertain to BMW F800 models. I just reported news that I had recently heard that I and probably other people were not aware of, which might be of interest to anyone visiting Texas in the future. I don't see how you can consider this news political as it was just reporting a fact. Unless you object to my short comment that I am concerned regarding people carrying guns without the proper training. But why would that be considered a gun rights or gun control discussion? I certainly was not praising the right to own guns. It is just a fact that appears to be guaranteed by our constitution. Not everything needs to be political, although I will admit that at times it does seem to be that way.
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    The original posting was informative as presented.

    The subsequent responses, in my opinion, identified this as a topic of opinion and politics.

    Best suited for the Grown Up section now. That's where misinformation and vitriol belong. The general informative nature of the post has been lost.
    Concrete remains undefeated. 

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    Well, I guess if the forum members really want to continue the discussion (which they may not), I guess I can try to move the thread to the political section. (My moderator skills are limited.) If you want to debate gun laws and continue the discussion let me know and I will move the thread.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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    You just showed extremely good moderator skills Richard...

    We can holster that one.

    Geez you have a lot of great bikes man!

    A 78 Honda Kick N Go eh?

    My wife was born around then, she kicks me, and asks me to go all the time...
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    Regarding this thread: I recommend that if no one wants to discuss this subject further we just let it stay here and it will eventually fall off of the General Discussion page, which gets a lot more activity than does the Grown-up Discussion section, where it would likely stick around for years as new threads don't happen very often there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    What worries me are people carrying guns in a crowded urban setting that have bought them for personal protection but have never had any training on how to use them or how to hit what they are aiming at. Not a good combination.
    That is a common argument among those against it. Can I ask why you are concerned with Texans having CC if you live in CA? Curiosity?
    A gun IS a great equalizer, Sam Colt said that. There are many news reports where untrained people use a gun to defend themselves. Do I want people to get training? As someone who has professionally carried for 25 years I do. More importantly, I like that TX finally got aboard with 17 other states to recognize that citizens/residents should not have to pay the govt. a fee just to exercise a Constitutional right. It is the same tired argument I heard when TX got concealed carry back in 95? Gunfights would abound, blood would run in the street. I work in an urban setting and IF there was ever a place to be armed, Bad D is it (well next to Houston which is a cess pool).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    What worries me are people carrying guns in a crowded urban setting that have bought them for personal protection but have never had any training on how to use them or how to hit what they are aiming at. Not a good combination.
    s/guns/motorcycle/g

    Certainly unsafe to allow mere citizens to purchase and operate a motorcycle without the government's permission! No background check or anything! Many states (but far from all) require a box checked on driver's license to operate on street but again for many that is no more difficult than asking the DMV to check "organ donor" box.
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    OK, I moved this thread to the Grown-up section since there is more discussion regarding the new Texas law. I found the subject interesting for two reasons. Anyone visiting or moving to the state, from California as an example, should be aware that if they see a lot of people carrying a gun they need to know why that is happening.

    The other reason is that it is just hard for me to wrap my head around the potential chaos that might occur during something like a mass shooting incident at say a mall. Can you imagine the poor cops who respond to something like that and find many of the shoppers with guns out and looking for someone to shoot? What would they do in a situation like that. Especially, when many of the people carrying guns might have no training regarding how to use them or to accurately fire them.

    I fully support the Second Amendment, but I also believe that gun owners should be licensed to use them and also should receive extensive training on their use and care. But this new Texas law just doesn't seem like a good idea to me in our current society, especially in a congested urban environment.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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    America be quazy.

    Why care if the shooter is trained? If trained then they've learned how to shoot people. If not trained then they figure out how to shoot people. So what if they shoot the wrong person, whether they are trained or not? Wrong and right person is a matter of opinion, apparently.

    Carrying a gun around (as in concealed carry or open carry) has only one purpose: to shoot people. BS'ing about it being for 'protection' still means the gun is for shooting people.

    Surely the 30,000 plus Americans shot every year sure as shucks figured out the shooter carried a gun and shot people.

    America, land of the free, home of the depraved.

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    p.s. don't y'alls geddit that some of the most highly trained gun toting fine upstanding Americans be thah pohlice. They get around shooting the wrong people for the wrong reason on a daily basis. Ooops.

    So much for training you idiots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    OK, I moved this thread to the Grown-up section since there is more discussion regarding the new Texas law. I found the subject interesting for two reasons. Anyone visiting or moving to the state, from California as an example, should be aware that if they see a lot of people carrying a gun they need to know why that is happening.

    The other reason is that it is just hard for me to wrap my head around the potential chaos that might occur during something like a mass shooting incident at say a mall. Can you imagine the poor cops who respond to something like that and find many of the shoppers with guns out and looking for someone to shoot? What would they do in a situation like that. Especially, when many of the people carrying guns might have no training regarding how to use them or to accurately fire them.

    I fully support the Second Amendment, but I also believe that gun owners should be licensed to use them and also should receive extensive training on their use and care. But this new Texas law just doesn't seem like a good idea to me in our current society, especially in a congested urban environment.
    I like a good discussion. Let me talk about your last paragraph first. It is a dichotomy. You can not support the 2A, at least fully, while requiring that citizens get permission and pay a tax to the govt. IF it is a bad idea then why haven't the other 17 states had issues with their CC law? You mention cities a lot and you are correct, the risk factors go up but criminals go all over and you can be victimized in a small town too. SD is but one aspect of the 2A. Hunting doesn't even register. The true reason for the 2A is to fight against tyranny and CA has more than their fair share. I work for a global company now and they were HQ in CA but moved here. Now the CEO will give many reasons but taxes and state laws limiting corporations ranks upthere. People are fleeing your state for a reason. They just bring their bad ideas of a Republic with them.
    Concerning your 2nd paragraph, LEOs can distinguish btw good guys and bad guys, usually. I dont recall too many stories where the GG was shot by responding LEOs in an active shooter and the reality is most active shooters are done prior to LEO arrival. What they have found is less people are murdered when a GG with a gun engages the BG.
    Lastly, this is like the mask argument, which again CA and NY seem to excel at when taking away freedoms. You wanna wear a mask, mask up. You dont want to CC, don't.
    People who don't want to mask up or who want to CC should be able to without people or a govt. Giving them a hassle about it.
    Again, my experience with dealing with lawful and unlawful weapon carriers spans 25 years. It IS a brave new world and law abiding citizens need a way to defend themselves in the wake of defund the police, increased riots and rising crime.
    Thanks for reading.

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    Guys... I moved to North Dallas from Orange County just last November. Since I've been here I have not seen one person with a firearm. If they have them they are concealed. If I'm ever in a situation where a bad guy with a gun is threatening my family, I pray that there is a good guy with a gun close by.

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  32. #20
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    My newspaper had an article in it yesterday written by Phillip Reese and published by the Sacramento Bee, which reported that California residents purchased 920,000 handguns from March 2020 to April 2021. And that is in the state with the toughest gun laws in the country. There were also an additional 183,000 long guns sold during the pandemic lockdown, compared with the previous 14 months. It would seem that the state's residents may not have too much confidence that their police can protect them against criminals taking advantage of the pandemic crisis and are thinking of taking the matter into their own hands. Which to me is kind of scary as I don't think most residents of this state really know how to shoot guns, especially as there are not all that many public shooting ranges still open around here where they could practice. A gun in the hands of an untrained person, such as most criminals are, sounds like trouble to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    My newspaper had an article in it yesterday written by Phillip Reese and published by the Sacramento Bee, which reported that California residents purchased 920,000 handguns from March 2020 to April 2021.

    A gun in the hands of an untrained person, such as most criminals are, sounds like trouble to me.
    There is no denying that A LOT of people bought handguns, not just in CA but all over the US. One just needs to look at the number of NICS checks. I think there are many reasons for the gun purchases.

    You have repeated your last sentence again. I think it was in your initial post. You kinda equate untrained citizens with criminals which I find interesting. What kina trouble do you think will occur with untrained law abiding citizens? Does the lack of gun ranges have anything to do with state and local govt.? So if a citizen was trained, you are ok with an armed citizen? What training do you think is needed? Who should mandate that training? The devil is always in the details.

    Meanwhile, a store clerk can point a gun and press the trigger just fine in a robbery of a citizen can take the safety off his loaded AR, use his red dot sight, and press the trigger in case of a riot or home invasion. No training needed. Again, I think people should get training in gun safety, use of force laws, awareness, and tactics but that should not be a requirement to demonstrate a Constitutional Right.

    We are all cyclists so here is a good analogy. Should a potential cycle buyer have to have training to ride and show proof of having a helmet before even purchasing a cycle? The kicker is there is no Constitutional right to ride a cycle.



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    My concern is that a lot of innocent bystanders are getting shot by robbers and gangsters all the time who apparently have no idea how to properly use a weapon. I doubt that someone who has just bought a gun and has never used one before is going to do any better if they ever need to use it in what they feel is an emergency.

    My dad brought me a single-shot bolt-action 22 rifle from Sears for $13 when I was a boy. I spent a lot of time at the local and long-gone county public rifle range nearby learning how to shoot that rifle accurately. Later, while in the Air Force I became an expert during basic training shooting an M1 carbine and later also an expert at shooting an M16. That was the last time I ever shot a gun and I have never even thought of needing one for self-defense.
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    I guess its only a short time before some enterprising person offers a winchester holster to fit F800------complete with tooled leather and frilly edges of course. ----or how about twin machine pistols set into the fairing !

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    Quote Originally Posted by guscsr65 View Post
    I guess its only a short time before some enterprising person offers a winchester holster to fit F800------complete with tooled leather and frilly edges of course. ----or how about twin machine pistols set into the fairing !
    Well, those holsters seemed to be a standard fitting on every photo that you would see of a WWII Harley, typically designed for a Tommy gun. How useful those weapons were for the riders likely is questionable, though. My guess is that when being shot at the rider was more interested in getting off the bike and looking for a rock to hide under, instead of trying to pull his gun out of its scabbard and spraying 45 caliber slugs into the surrounding countryside, letting everyone know which rock he was hiding under.
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    Last time I fired a gun was in the early 80s in the Air Training Corps as a cadet.
    That was a Lee Enfield. 303 with a. 22 bore on the range at Amberley Airbase. The F111 and Chinooks had just come into service with the RAAF.
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    When I was stationed at Howard AFB during the 1960's sometimes the local Panamanians would become upset by the U.S. seemingly running their country and would start thinking of marching on the base to protest. While that never happened during the 18 months that I was stationed there, there was one time that the base commander thought it might occur. So what they did was to give me (who worked at the base civil engineering office) a M16 and put me on guard duty at one of the base access points. Needless to say, I was not given any live ammunition, just an empty rifle and clip. I was told that if I saw a mob of Panamanians marching on my position, I was to run back to the base (apparently I wasn't trusted with a radio, either) and keep running into the 82nd Airborne's adjacent Kobe Army base and let those guys do any needed fighting. BTW, we hated those Airborne guys. They would wake up at 5am every morning, form up in columns, and jog around our base, yelling "Airborne, Airborne", while were were trying to sleep in until breakfast would be served at 7am, before going to our 8-5 workday at the office. Didn't they have any consideration for us office workers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    My concern is that a lot of innocent bystanders are getting shot by robbers and gangsters all the time who apparently have no idea how to properly use a weapon. I doubt that someone who has just bought a gun and has never used one before is going to do any better if they ever need to use it in what they feel is an emergency.

    I have never even thought of needing one for self-defense.
    Uh, a lot of innocent civilians are getting shot by robbers and gangsters because well, they are criminals. Do criminals have negligent discharges? Sure they do but if I took a guess, I would say they intentionally shoot their victims over negligently shooting their victims by 20 to 1. You can doubt untrained gun owners all you want but if you read the NRA First Freedom magazine, they run an article every month of civilians using a gun to defend themselves. An educated guess would be that 50% of those lack any significant training. If you go to youtube and check out the Active Self Protection Channel, you can find A LOT of videos where civilians use a handgun for SD (again, most don't have any significant training) and you can also see civilians and LE victimized as well. A prepared individual lowers their risk significantly to being attacked BUT when the rubber meets the road, you simply aim your gun at the bad guy and press the trigger. Again, thousands of people have done just that.

    I find it odd that you were in the AF and trained with an M1 carbine and a M16 yet have never thought of needing a handgun for SD? Why did the AF give issue you a carbine and rifle then?

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    I depend upon the laws of our society and the police to keep my family and I safe. While that concept may not work in many areas around the world it does work where I live. Are things that much different in Texas that everyone need to be armed?

    While I concede that there is way too much shooting and killing in some large urban areas in California, like Oakland and San Jose, most of those incidents are the result of drive-by shootings into groups of targeted people - like the party bus that was shot up with 70 bullets a couple of weeks ago in Oakland. I don't see how having everyone armed is going to help them much when a gang drives by in a car shooting indiscriminately out of the car's windows. By the time they pull their guns out of their dragging pants, the car is long gone.

    When I was in the Air Force we were not issued any weapons unless we were at a supervised rifle range and were there to practice. In all of my time in the AF I never saw anyone carry a gun other than the Air Police. Even at the Army base next to ours in Panama, none of the soldiers ever carried weapons while on their base. Access to weapons in the military are strictly controlled unless you are sent somewhere really dangerous where you might actually need them to defend yourself - and that doesn't include an American city.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  43. #29
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    Richard, don't try to understand the pro gun bang bang bang brigade. They think the way to reduce gun crime and killing is to have more guns. They also can't add up, poor sweets, coz the understanding of math do elude them, it do.

    We even have an imbecile in here that used the four syllable word "dichotomy" in a facile attempt to convey mastery over the Inglish language and yet placed the poor silly word both inappropriately and ensconced in a post containing 23 grammatical errors. I hope that he who has shot for a living for the last 25 years shoots better than he aims his literary barbs.

    In his defence, he is clearly untrained in the use of English, but writes his blather anyway. So I can see why he would like everyone to carry a gun and use it whether they know or care who or where they aim. Just'n as long as day be carrying he's a happy.

    No doubt he's a Christain.

  44. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RidaMile View Post
    Richard, don't try to understand the pro gun bang bang bang brigade. They think the way to reduce gun crime and killing is to have more guns. They also can't add up, poor sweets, coz the understanding of math do elude them, it do.

    We even have an imbecile in here that used the four syllable word "dichotomy" in a facile attempt to convey mastery over the Inglish language and yet placed the poor silly word both inappropriately and ensconced in a post containing 23 grammatical errors. I hope that he who has shot for a living for the last 25 years shoots better than he aims his literary barbs.

    In his defence, he is clearly untrained in the use of English, but writes his blather anyway. So I can see why he would like everyone to carry a gun and use it whether they know or care who or where they aim. Just'n as long as day be carrying he's a happy.

    No doubt he's a Christain.
    To whom do you refer or is it "who"?
    Also "inglish" and "Christain" are mis-spelled.

    How does being a Christian factor in here?

    As for math and the amount of guns in the US, you are obviously not a reader of The researcher George Lott. I bet you are fun at parties.

    Oops, I see you are Canadian. That splains a lot about your comments here. Curious, what have you done for 25 years, well other than be an insufferable twunt? Did I use those words correctly?

    Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
    Last edited by El Spicoli; 2 Days Ago at 02:37 PM.

  45. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    I depend upon the laws of our society and the police to keep my family and I safe. While that concept may not work in many areas around the world it does work where I live. Are things that much different in Texas that everyone need to be armed?
    If you depend on "laws" and the police to keep your family safe, you are gonna be disappointed somewhere down the line. Why? Uh, it goes back to criminals and criminals not following the law. As for police protecting you - 1. SCOTUS has determined police protect the general public NOT individuals 2) What will be the response time where you live for the police coming to protect you.

    When you ask if TX is different, I think you mean is crime that bad here? Let's face it, crime has been on the rise for the past 3-4 years particularly in Urban areas. TX is different than CA in that we seem to lean more conservative particularly when it comes to 2A freedoms. I get it, you think as a whole citizens being armed is a bad idea. You are entitled to that opinion but that does not mean you are correct. What I find odd is that someone from CA started a thread on Constitutional Carry in TX. Did you ever stop to wonder why people are leaving CA (blue state) for a red state??

    Is crime rising because A LOT of lawful citizens have bought guns in the last 8 years as that condescending RideAMile suggests or could there possibly be other reasons?? Curious to what you think. See despite disagreeing we are having a reasonable discussion. I can't say that for RideAMile who has really kinda irked me now. I would contend crime has increased (more importantly violent crime) because Police Chiefs are limiting what patrol officers can do, long serving LEOs are leaving in droves, there are huge shortages of officers in urban cities in the US, courts have taken a lenient approach to criminals (check out NYC doing away with their bail laws) BHO has fostered a hatred towards LE that has manifests itself to include BLM and Antifa, the dissolution of the family and educators are brainwashing our kids now to despise anything related to patriotism, liberty, and military/police. Is it any wonder citizens want to be armed for SD when the very govt. they rely on for this purpose has failed them? What I have found, especially with liberals (that use to not be a negative word) is that they don't know what they don't know but they sure like to tell you what they think they Know. I don't know what RideAMile does in Canada but it would be like me going to his job, having no experience whatsoever doing his job, and then telling him how to do his job and that he is an idiot for the way he has done it.

    *I apologize in advance to RideAMile for the inglish mistakes in this post.* Oh, I am NOT a Christain but I am a Christian. Careful, your vitriol is showing.

  46. #32
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    America be quazy.

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