Notchy missing down shifts in 1st ,2nd & 3rd - BMW F800 Riders Forum & Registry



Remove this advertisement by REGISTERING.

Results 1 to 38 of 38
  1. #1
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    I've been experiencing problems with the down shifting on my F700GS,,. 38,000 kms, oil level up and 2000kms on the current oil which is the OEM recommended 15W-50 ADVANTEC,,. This is the only oil ever used on the bike?

    Upshifts are OK, down shifts in 5th and 4th are OK but lately the downshifts from 3rd to 2ns and down into 1st are either missing or very notchy but not consistently so,,. Some shifts into the bottom 2 gears can be relatively smooth,,. Its possible this problem is worse when downshifting at higher RPM,,.

    The only thing I've changed is a new clutch lever with a more adjustable range to it and frankly its come with a lot of twiddling and adjustment both at the lever and down at the clutch itself? I currently have this adjusted to the point of the correct amount of free play approx. 3 or 4 MM and this has been verified by other more knowledgeable F800 owners?
    I've also adjusted to have too much free play and not enough free play in attempt to over come the issue and neither scenario has offered much of an improvement?

    The bike has in the past exhibited a similar notchy problematic downshifting problem when cold, with cold start and first 3 mins of operation and then seems fine after?

    Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated?

  2. Remove Advertisements
    F800Riders.org
    Advertisements

  3. #2
    N4HHE's Avatar
    Points: 19,978, Level: 97

    Real Name
    David Kelly
    Location
    Madison, AL
    Joined
    Feb 2010
    Online
    13 Hours Ago
    Posts
    1,930 / 18 / 47 / 424
    Motorcycle
    '16 FJR1300A
    Motorcycle
    '09 FE450
    Motorcycle
    '07 F800S
    Use a different motor oil. My F800S does not like BMW synthetic oils. Shifting now as smooth as if it was a Honda dirtbike. It loves my 10 year old supply of 15W-40 Delo. I don't know what I will do when I run out.
    2016 Yamaha FJR1300A; 2016 Beta 430RS; 2007 BMW F800S; 2009 Husaberg FE450; 2016 Subaru Outback; 2018 F150; 2013 Tesla Model S 85; 1983 Porsche 928S; 9 cats

  4. #3
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 268,828, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    3 Hours Ago
    Posts
    10,360 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    My F650GS has always had a notchy gearbox, which has never felt very smooth, no matter what oil I use. But it still works, which is a good thing, I believe.

    My recommendation is to adjust the clutch lever so that it has minimal play, then pull the clutch lever in to the grip when shifting and see if that helps. If it does help your shifting then you know what the problem is and you will just have to reduce your clutch cable play to 1 or 2mm. That should be enough play, but check the cable slack when the engine is hot and during hot weather to be sure that there remains some play in the cable under all conditions. Also check the tightness of your shift lever to be sure that it is not wobbling on the shaft.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

  5. Likes Lag liked this post
  6. Remove Advertisements
    F800Riders.org
    Advertisements

  7. #4
    Points: 3,468, Level: 38

    Location
    Bay Area, Ca
    Joined
    May 2018
    Online
    14 Hours Ago
    Posts
    367 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '20 F900XR
    The thing to remember about adjustable levers is that they can be adjusted in so far that you can't physically move the lever far enough to fully disengage the clutch. The factory levers are designed with this in mind and it's why they don't come in as far as some would like. Freeplay is just to keep from slipping when you turn the bars, full engagement takes travel. Try adjusting the lever back out and see if that helps.

  8. Likes Lag liked this post
  9. #5
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    Thanks for the tips Guys,

    1)I think I adjusted the cable all the way from no free play to way to much and the problem persisted, better at times and worse,,.
    2)Tried the new lever all the way in and all the way out, problem persisted?
    3)Previous to changing the lever I never had cause to adjust the cable, was always fine,. Might put the OEM lever back on and see how that goes?

    4)This is from a previous blog and may be my issue, I hope for a simpler solution but sounds the same as my problem, only thing is mine only does maybe 20% of the time?

    I experienced something similar. There are 2 things at play: there's a pawl on the gear selector which must engage the next lower (or higher) post in the rotating transmission gear set (probably not the right words... it would be clear with a repair manual illustration). If you don't lift your foot high enough after a downshift, the pawl won't engage the next location on the selector and you'll miss the next shift.

    When you have difficulty selecting a gear when downshifting and have to increase force on the shift lever, that is possibly a problem with a bent pawl on the gear selector. There's no way for the dealer tech to easily see what is going on as the pawl is inside the gear box and your dealer isn't going to go in there unless there's a for-certain problem. He's going to tell you that you are the problem and more than 90% of the time he'll be right.

    In my case my F800GS suddenly developed a 1-speed transmission: I was stuck in first gear. I was fortunate that the BMW tech rep was at the dealer the day after I rode the bike in and confirmed that he'd seen the same problem on other F800 models but this was the first time he'd seen it on the -GS (it was inevitable since the gear box is the same).

    Apparently the symptom is that you can downshift (possibly with difficulty) but you can't upshift. I found it counter intuitive since I'd never had a problem upshifting. When they took the cover off, they found the problem was that the shift-pawl was bent. When that happens they have to replace the gear selector. The shaft of the gear selector is what the shift lever is attached to. Not a huge operation: the bike was on the lift with the side cover off and only the gear selector was out of the gear box.

    I'd suggest getting an appointment with your dealer and tell them about your complaint. But don't expect them to tear into it until you can't shift. At least there will be a record of your concern.

  10. #6
    AKBeemer's Avatar
    Points: 9,096, Level: 66

    Real Name
    Kevin Huddy
    Location
    Silver City, Montana
    Joined
    Sep 2011
    Online
    5 Hours Ago
    Posts
    473 / 0 / 2 / 52
    It is axiomatic that when something is wrong with a motorcycle the most likely cause is something the owner did to the bike, ostensibly to make it better. Don't feel bad, most of us have done it. Sounds to me as if you have adjusted the clutch into a problem and replacing the new lever with the OE lever and adjusting the cable to its previous condition is a good place to start in fixing your problem. Good luck!
    Kevin
    The Outpost, Silver City, Montana
    Team Pterodactyl

  11. Likes Richard230 liked this post
  12. #7
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    Ok, so switched out the levers and re tested and problem persists,,.

    Further investigation leads me to this as the likely culprit? For putting around this problem is not bad but for city or more aggressive riding it represents a considerable safety hazard so I'm going to the dealer in a week, if they have a quick fix I will let them do it, if not I will follow the instructions from the pasted thread,,. Its a bit dated but sounds like somewhat of a common problem for this type of bike?

    "Update on my 3rd to 2nd shift problem. It finally got the better of me at 34000 klm's so I followed a good youtube video on removal and repair of the gear selector. Mine was not as bad as some examples I found on various forums but was visibly bent or deformed. It seams to be a soft metal and taps into shape fairly easily. I did not use heat as in the video but as I said mine was not as badly damaged. More like wear and tear. After reassembly and test ride the problem appears to have been fixed. If it reappears in the future I will buy a new one. AUD $160.00. The job itself is not difficult. I'm no mechanic and managed it easily. I found the best info searching for F800GS gear selector problems."

  13. #8
    308bever's Avatar
    Points: 3,610, Level: 39

    Real Name
    bever
    Location
    geelong vic au
    Joined
    Jun 2018
    Online
    14 Hours Ago
    Posts
    335 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '13 F700GS
    have you got new boots? i had trouble for 500kms, until i got the feel of the boots. also try changing gears down alittle sooner while the revs are higher, good luck.

  14. #9
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    Hi Bever,,,.No sometimes the brake lever wont even budge into second, other times its notchy but the gear doesn't change so definitely the problem is this bent paw,,.

    "When you have difficulty selecting a gear when downshifting and have to increase force on the shift lever, that is possibly a problem with a bent pawl on the gear selector."

    Have Friend coming tomorrow and we will open up clutch cover and see what we can see,,. I think this is minor as its working in all gears and 75% of the time in 1's and 2nd,,. Hopefully we can straighten it,,.

  15. #10
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 268,828, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    3 Hours Ago
    Posts
    10,360 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    Good luck, Lyle. Let us now how it turns out. Taking a few photos of anything interesting would be great, too.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

  16. #11
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    Sorry Richard, didn't see the request for the photo's till now,,.

    So my very knowledgeable friend came over,,, we laid the bike at a 45 degree angle and removed the cover side stand and foot peg to access the internal shift mechanism,,. We removed the "gear selector assemble," and as suspected it looked to be in pristine condition,,. There were a couple of little minor burs from manufacture, one of the fork tongs was rubbing on the plate so we did some minor touch up with a file,,. My friend thought he could see a very minor bend in the soft brass plate that usually gets bent however I could not see it,,. He did a slight bend with a crescent wrench, we reassembled, road tested 40Kms and "Bobs Your Uncle",,,, problem resolved,,!!

    I would say the 1st,2nd & neutral shifting is "not " smooth as silk when compared with my Ninia 1000, however its likely within the design spec for the little GS,,.

    Needless to say, I'm happy as can be and very thankful my friend paid me a visit yesterday,,!!

  17. Likes Richard230, 308bever, N4HHE, IanA liked this post
  18. #12
    Points: 682, Level: 13

    Joined
    Jul 2020
    Online
    06-14-21
    Posts
    1 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    I've been experiencing problems with the down shifting on my F700GS,,. 38,000 kms, oil level up and 2000kms on the current oil which is the OEM recommended 15W-50 ADVANTEC,,. This is the only oil ever used on the bike?

    Upshifts are OK, down shifts in 5th and 4th are OK but lately the downshifts from 3rd to 2ns and down into 1st are either missing or very notchy but not consistently so,,. Some shifts into the bottom 2 gears can be relatively smooth,,. Its possible this problem is worse when downshifting at higher RPM,,.

    The only thing I've changed is a new clutch lever with a more adjustable range to it and frankly its come with a lot of twiddling and adjustment both at the lever and down at the clutch itself? I currently have this adjusted to the point of the correct amount of free play approx. 3 or 4 MM and this has been verified by other more knowledgeable F800 owners?
    I've also adjusted to have too much free play and not enough free play in attempt to over come the issue and neither scenario has offered much of an improvement?

    The bike has in the past exhibited a similar notchy problematic downshifting problem when cold, with cold start and first 3 mins of operation and then seems fine after?

    Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated?
    ...have you shot a proper lubricant into the moving parts after reassembly? Outside stuff needs proper lubrication as much as those on the inside.

  19. #13
    Points: 261, Level: 5

    Joined
    Feb 2021
    Online
    1 Week Ago
    Posts
    2 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Hello Lag, I have learnt from my F800R that some gear boxes seems to be more difficult than others to work smoothly. My bike is also 38,000 km and was serviced at 30.000 km when I bought it. From the beginning I was affraid I got some damaged bike, later, one of mechanic I know told me its mostly characteristic of these motors: rotax two in line. Searched for some help about this issue because it was so frurtrating to find that my Husqvarna TR650 Shifted absolutely smooth, and in the F800 was almost imposible to spot the neutral point when it was most needed. Found some fantastic advise and its to do some short throttling before shifting. This is the way it works: when you get to a stop light, you go from 3rd to 2nd, then 1st giving the bike throttle blipping downshifting. The shift will be super smooth and easy, and for my sake, found out that what happened to be so difficult to go from 1st to neutral when stoped was to use the same throttle blimp, but in this case you should touch firmly upwards the shift lever befor blimping, and also do so when upshifting 2nd, 3rd...and so on. Sounds pretty easy, and it is, but you have to practice. Im sure this will make you love your machine more than you do now.
    Cheers and enjoy yourself.

  20. #14
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 268,828, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    3 Hours Ago
    Posts
    10,360 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    It could be my imagination but it seems as though finding the right oil can make my notchy F650GS's transmission shift a little smoother. But the trouble with modern oils is that the manufacturers continually change their formulations and product names faster than I can change my motor oil.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

  21. Likes 308bever liked this post
  22. #15
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    OK, unfortunately this thread is back and so is my downshifting to second problem, weave had the gear selector shaft assembly out twice and it looks pretty dam straight so at this point I'm kindah at a loss as to how to proceed,. I'm considering switching oil, & replacing the selector shaft assembly anyways even thou I don't think either will necessarily fix the issue, I've found online a few other examples of folks having the same problem with there 798cc twins?

    Found this old thread on line and it describes my problem to a "T" however there was never a solution,,.

    I have a 65 F800GS, just got it back from its 1 year service.

    I have a problem where going from 3rd gear into 2nd one of three things can happen:
    - The shifter is stiff and I have to let off before trying to press back down again
    - I shift the lever down but it stays in 3rd (i.e. a false shift)
    - I actually go into 2nd gear

    The problem seems to be when the bike is cold and after a few shifts up and down the box it seems to be ok, but I have to make sure in my mind to give very deliberate shifts rather than just doing it as I would in any other gear.

    Has anyone had experience of this before or have any suggestions?


    https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...nd-false-shift

  23. #16
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 268,828, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    3 Hours Ago
    Posts
    10,360 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    OK, unfortunately this thread is back and so is my downshifting to second problem, weave had the gear selector shaft assembly out twice and it looks pretty dam straight so at this point I'm kindah at a loss as to how to proceed,. I'm considering switching oil, & replacing the selector shaft assembly anyways even thou I don't think either will necessarily fix the issue, I've found online a few other examples of folks having the same problem with there 798cc twins?

    Found this old thread on line and it describes my problem to a "T" however there was never a solution,,.

    I have a 65 F800GS, just got it back from its 1 year service.

    I have a problem where going from 3rd gear into 2nd one of three things can happen:
    - The shifter is stiff and I have to let off before trying to press back down again
    - I shift the lever down but it stays in 3rd (i.e. a false shift)
    - I actually go into 2nd gear

    The problem seems to be when the bike is cold and after a few shifts up and down the box it seems to be ok, but I have to make sure in my mind to give very deliberate shifts rather than just doing it as I would in any other gear.

    Has anyone had experience of this before or have any suggestions?


    https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...nd-false-shift

    I don't know what to make of that. It sure sounds like an internal mechanical problem to me. If no other solution arises, you may have to visit a BMW dealer to have it sorted out. If this is an issue with other F800 models, you would think that the dealers would have come across the problem before and know how to fix it. It could even be that BMW has sent out a service memorandum regarding the issue and how to solve the problem.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

  24. #17
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    Its not an uncommon problem, in many cases the bike gets knocked over on the shifter and the gear selector shaft mechanism gets twisted, they bend it straight or replace it,,.
    The service manager at BMW confirmed this, as the problem became worse after they did a clutch adjustment that came along with my 40,000 valve check,,. He claimed that the two were unrelated however the clutch adjustment does seem to make it better or worse,,. BMW confirmed they would start replacing the parts that we checked and give it back to me,,. I'm a little apprehensive to let them go to town on the problem,,. I don't really trust them based on my previous experience,,.
    To eliminate the clutch adjustment as a the problem I've gone back to no risers and the OEM cable set up,,. Good balanced free play, 3mm both directions,,.

    As I said, "I'm grasping at straws here" I was thinking of putting a Rotella W5-40 full synthetic in (current oil is BMW's OEM 15w-50), the theory being that the thinner oil on start up will smooth out the nicheness, long enough for it to warm up,,. Its seems fine after the oil heats up?

    I've heard where people claim that oil changes can have an effect on shifting, both positive and negative,,. I was hoping for some anecdotal advise in this regard,,.

  25. #18
    N4HHE's Avatar
    Points: 19,978, Level: 97

    Real Name
    David Kelly
    Location
    Madison, AL
    Joined
    Feb 2010
    Online
    13 Hours Ago
    Posts
    1,930 / 18 / 47 / 424
    Motorcycle
    '16 FJR1300A
    Motorcycle
    '09 FE450
    Motorcycle
    '07 F800S
    The best shifting oil I have found for my F800S was a 10 year old bottle of Chevron Delo 15W-40.

    "Full Synthetic" is meaningless as a performance specification.

    Current formula Rotella-T6 5W-40 is among the worst shifting oils I have found. Not just "not good" but "outright bad."
    2016 Yamaha FJR1300A; 2016 Beta 430RS; 2007 BMW F800S; 2009 Husaberg FE450; 2016 Subaru Outback; 2018 F150; 2013 Tesla Model S 85; 1983 Porsche 928S; 9 cats

  26. #19
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    Interesting,, . My friend swears by the Rotella because he had a 750 Honda with a tranny issue thats plagued the bike every time it got hot,,. He switched to the Rotella and his problem went away, totally went away,,. he thinks its smoothed out the shifting in his F800GS,,.

    I'm not holding my breath, its all black magic anyways,,!!

  27. #20
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    It could be my imagination but it seems as though finding the right oil can make my notchy F650GS's transmission shift a little smoother. But the trouble with modern oils is that the manufacturers continually change their formulations and product names faster than I can change my motor oil.
    Richard, what oil did you arrive at "(finding the right oil)",,,?

  28. #21
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 268,828, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    3 Hours Ago
    Posts
    10,360 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    Richard, what oil did you arrive at "(finding the right oil)",,,?
    With regard to my GS, I am still looking. Rotella 15w-40 "conventional and cheap" oil works best in my Yamaha FZ1 - along with 36K miles of break-in.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

  29. Likes N4HHE liked this post
  30. #22
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    So I've done a hot engine flush and tried the Rotella T6 5w40,,. Unfortunately it appears to have made the downshift problem way worse,,. Not sure if it was coincidental or not but the shifting was so bad i could barely get it below third on a consistent basis,,. Its never been that bad with the OEM Advantech 15w-50 so I've replaced it with that, I haven't done a through test ride on the Advantech oil however on the stand with the engine running it seems to me more of an intermittent problem again, then it was with the Rotella,,.

    My friend has said he would take a third look under the clutch cover and inspect the other parts that are accessible however this is looking increasingly like an internal transmission problem,,.

    There is plenty of anecdotal information on the net of others having similar shifting issues with there 798 twin setups so if anyone has had similar issues that can shed any light on the problem beyond the shifter shaft replacement I would certainly appreciate hearing from them,,. I'm hearing that this has been a relatively common problem and in some cases BMW has replaced the shifter shaft assemble both on and off warranty,,. This one appears to be in pristine condition (two inspections) however for a lack of a better idea I may replace it anyway even though it seems unlikely to be a solution,,. Next stop will be BMW,,?

  31. #23
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 268,828, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    3 Hours Ago
    Posts
    10,360 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    Since moving to a light 5W-40 oil made things worse, I wonder if a thicker 20W-50 would make shifting better?
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

  32. #24
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    Thats as far as Ill go with the oil,,!!
    The theory was thinner viscosity oil when cold would have the effect a hot oil so I'm kindah disappointed that the thinner oil viscosity made it worse, I hadn't held much hope however if it is worse due to an oil viscosity change in the transmission it seems be pointing to a more complicated problem,,.

    Ill probable spend $200.00 on the shift selector and when that doesn't work its over to the BMW dealer,,. I thought I might call them first just to see if I can learn anything regarding the history of these problems,,. One of the techs told me that this is somewhat common to the twin 798 engine set up,,. They may know where to go with the problem based on experience, as apposed to experimenting,,.
    Last edited by Lag; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:52 AM.

  33. #25
    anjelli's Avatar
    Points: 6,993, Level: 58

    Real Name
    angie unless its greg!
    Location
    fraser valley bc canada
    Joined
    Oct 2013
    Online
    6 Days Ago
    Posts
    253 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '14 F700GS
    Motorcycle
    '14 KLX250S
    Motorcycle
    '13 F700GS
    If switching from 15W to 5w made it worse, nothing wrong with trying 20w, is there? However, it doesn't sound like oil will solve this in any event. I tend to prefer the heavier base weight oils in my engines, DRZ runs 20w-50 and shifts fine, boat motor uses 25w-40. Rule #1 for me is to thoroughly warm any engine to operating temp before the spurs begin to come out.
    Not trying to start an oil thread!!
    Greg

  34. #26
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 268,828, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    3 Hours Ago
    Posts
    10,360 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    I bet a can of STP would really smooth out the shifting - if you could get it out of the can and into the oil filler hole.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

  35. #27
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    I think I'm done with the oil experimenting, never held much hope,,. Its parts replacement time now,,.

    Sure wish they would open the boarders up for cross boarder shopping,,. These Canadian merchants are getting a little greedy with the lack of competition & out of stock on everything?

  36. #28
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 268,828, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    3 Hours Ago
    Posts
    10,360 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    I think I'm done with the oil experimenting, never held much hope,,. Its parts replacement time now,,.

    Sure wish they would open the boarders up for cross boarder shopping,,. These Canadian merchants are getting a little greedy with the lack of competition & out of stock on everything?
    I think it is like that with just about everything, just about everywhere - except maybe toilet paper and Clorox wipes.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

  37. #29
    308bever's Avatar
    Points: 3,610, Level: 39

    Real Name
    bever
    Location
    geelong vic au
    Joined
    Jun 2018
    Online
    14 Hours Ago
    Posts
    335 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '13 F700GS
    let us know what they find, fix and charge......... good luck mate (((-;

  38. Likes Lag liked this post
  39. #30
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    Thanks Beaver,,. I can find where other owners had very similar problems however they don't always follow up on how they fixed it,,. Will keep you posted,,.

    This is my first BMW, and some how I don't get the warm and fuzzies dealing with them,,.
    Tried to get a bit of info out of my local dealer service department this am to no avail,,!!

    - Never heard of the problem before, doesn't know anyone that has,,.
    - He doesn't do quotes/estimates/or approximates or advise over the phone?
    - Wont be able to look at till the third week of next month,,.
    And
    - Basically there going to run the clock at $150.00 per hour, till they find the problem?

    Pretty much the season over for this bike,,. Lucky I have another,,!!

  40. #31
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 268,828, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    3 Hours Ago
    Posts
    10,360 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    They are booked up until the third week of August? Ouch! I agree that response would give you a bad feeling about having that shop work on your bike. What to do now?
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

  41. Likes Lag liked this post
  42. #32
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    Welcome to Canada,,. Weave got two BMW dealers in the lower mainland, thats the largest population base west of Toronto and both are owned and operated by the same folks, so you get the attitude,,. I'm going to try and replace a few parts as a long shot just in case but "like the oil" not holding my hope,,. This isn't going to be cheap by the looks of things so we will put in a new selector shaft and replace a few springs,,. Even the parts are 30% cheaper in the US, normally I would buy and pick up at the boarder, now you cant do that with "Covid" and shipping costs have skyrocketed,,!!

    Was planning for a new bike this winter, a 2022, likely to be a Triumph,,!!

  43. Likes Richard230 liked this post
  44. #33
    308bever's Avatar
    Points: 3,610, Level: 39

    Real Name
    bever
    Location
    geelong vic au
    Joined
    Jun 2018
    Online
    14 Hours Ago
    Posts
    335 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '13 F700GS
    if you are ditching bmw, have a look at V85 Moto Guzzi, they look good and review well, as long as your legs fit the bike. plan B, put 6mm of slack on the clutch cable at the lever, change up at higher rpm and down earlier too, try and not think about the process of changing gears and just do it, these motors love to rev, they`re not V8s nor diesels, try it and see before you change the clutch discs. good luck (((-;

  45. #34
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    One thing I've got my eye out for is the updated Triumph Tiger 1200,,,,,,,,its over-due 2021 so probable a 2022,,,,,the last production was 2020 and its just too big,,. Triumph has done some really nice work with the 900 and if the 1200 gets the new speed triple engine it will be a power house of torque and comfort, it just need to shed a few pounds,,.

  46. #35
    Richard230's Avatar
    Points: 268,828, Level: 100

    Real Name
    Richard
    Location
    Pacifica, California
    Joined
    Oct 2008
    Online
    3 Hours Ago
    Posts
    10,360 / 15 / 698 / 2031
    I saw a new Triumph 650 (?) triple at Alice's yesterday. This is the one that sells for around $9,000 USD. That bike looked really nice and its new owner was very happy with it. Unfortunately, he said that the bikes are really scarce right now and he got the last one on the showroom floor.

    Getting back to the thread subject for a moment: I was reminded of my personal story regarding a major shifting issue on one of my motorcycles. In 1968 a friend sold me a basket-case 1967 Yamaha 125cc YA-6 that he had taken apart because it wouldn't shift between gears and couldn't get back together again. (Apparently, this was the age before manufacturer warranties. ) Anyway, he sold me the pile of parts for $75 and then offered to help me put them back together. At that time I was stationed at L. G. Hanscom Field, about 20 miles west of Boston, MA. The airfield had a club warehouse where they allowed us servicemen to work on our cars and motorcycles, which kept us out of trouble during the cold Northeast winters. So we spent the winter pf 1968 putting the parts back together without any sort of service manual. But finally the engine parts all fit together without any parts left over. After assembling the engine into the chassis, the bike started right up and we were able to shift into a couple of gears before the transmission locked up and wouldn't shift out of second gear.

    So I gave up and rode the bike in second gear to the Yamaha shop in Boston and asked them to fix the transmission. A month later, and who know how many hours spent working on the engine, they gave up and sent the engine to the Yamaha U.S. distributor to see what they could do to get the transmission to work as intended by the factory. After another month went by, the importer managed to repair the engine. They said that they found a small crack in one of the crankcases. When they replaced that part, the engine shifted properly. A lot of labor went into that repair, but I was only charged $100 for the work, so perhaps someone decided that it might have been a factory flaw and the distributor soaked up the cost of repairs.

    I got my bike back just in time to go riding with a friend on his Ducati 160. Both the Yamaha and the Ducati had a top speed of 70 mph and we would run on the freeway wide open at that speed, until the Ducati would finally pull ahead of me with its top speed of 70.5 mph. Later that summer this engine treatment turned out to be a little too much for the long-suffering Yamaha and it holed a piston. But unlike modern motorcycles, a new piston, rings and spark plug fixed the issue at a cost of about $20 and an hour of my labor.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version.

Name:	scan0073 (2).jpg
Views:	9
Size:	324.8 KB
ID:	373661 Click image for larger version.

Name:	scan0074 (2).jpg
Views:	6
Size:	451.9 KB
ID:	373663
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

  47. Likes Lag liked this post
  48. #36
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    Those days unfortunately are gone Richard,,,,,I bought a pair of bike socks the other day for more then $20.00,,!!

    Talked to Triumph today, no 2021 inventory since may and its still not clear when information on the 2022's will be available,,,.
    Bikes are getting so complicated that all brands are in a constant state of updating and retooling so any brand can give you a hard time,,. You cant beat the Japanese bikes for reliability, my 2016 Ninja 1000SX has 55,000 Kms and never a mechanical issue, you can rev the shit out of it all day long in all kinds of heat and the temp doesn't even increase, its just toying with you,,!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0NzA8XkjRs

  49. Likes Richard230 liked this post
  50. #37
    Points: 6,222, Level: 54

    Real Name
    Ken Wright
    Location
    Workington Cumbria
    Joined
    Jan 2016
    Online
    27 Minutes Ago
    Posts
    714 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    Those days unfortunately are gone Richard,,,,,I bought a pair of bike socks the other day for more then $20.00,,!!

    Talked to Triumph today, no 2021 inventory since may and its still not clear when information on the 2022's will be available,,,.
    Bikes are getting so complicated that all brands are in a constant state of updating and retooling so any brand can give you a hard time,,. You cant beat the Japanese bikes for reliability, my 2016 Ninja 1000SX has 55,000 Kms and never a mechanical issue, you can rev the shit out of it all day long in all kinds of heat and the temp doesn't even increase, its just toying with you,,!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0NzA8XkjRs
    My Vincent Rapide wasn't even run in at 55,000 Kms! (I sold it to a guy who bought it at 120,000 miles and was satisfied it was 'just perfectly run in'!)

  51. #38
    Lag's Avatar
    Points: 6,563, Level: 56

    Real Name
    Lyle
    Location
    Whiterock British Columbi
    Joined
    Apr 2019
    Online
    12 Hours Ago
    Posts
    665 / 0 / 0 / 0
    Motorcycle
    '15 F700GS
    For those with an interest or perhaps a similar problem, I've got an update on this down shift problem,,.

    So my good friend came over again and we removed the clutch case cover and went over everything with a fine tooth comb,(3rd time),.

    As previously the shift selector shaft and assembly looked in pristine condition,(straight, no bends, up/down functioning as per normal),. We did however observe a mark on the back side of the inside shift fork plate and discovered the source to be a very sharp burr on the curled end of spring #26 on the diagram,,.
    The theory being that this was periodically catching on the shift fork long enough to intermittently interfere with the shift,,. We removed and disassembled locking lever#24 and ground the end of the burr off the spring #26,,. We we reassembled with great difficulty and have done 3 road tests with both cold and hot oil, fast & slow high and low RPM,. With a total of 50 3rd to 2nd down shifts over the course of the 3 tests I can report no missed down shifts, two of the 50 downshifts were a bit notchy(not that unusual for this tranny) so required a bit of extra pressure on the shift lever before acquiring the downshift,,.

    At this point I'm abought 90% convinced that we have possible sourced & resolved this problem,,. 10% is waiting for a full day road test as weave been fooled before with this problem,,.
    Click image for larger version.

Name:	Screenshot_20210724-103205_Messages.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	180.2 KB
ID:	373785

  52. Likes Richard230, 308bever liked this post

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts