Flukey electrical problems 2013 F800GS - Ideas anyone - BMW F800 Riders Forum & Registry



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  1. #1
    GaryW's Avatar
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    Intermittently, and after continuous riding for over 45 minutes, my 2013 F800GS acts up in strange,unpredictable manner. Sometimes the horn just goes off and my heated grips icon goes on; sometimes the LCD display blinks off for a second or two, and unfortunately, sometimes the motorcycle idles very rough and shuts off. When I first noticed this, the ground battery wire was loose, and so I tightened it, thinking that the matter was resolved, but it was not.

    I have been thinking that maybe my high LED beams are drawing too much current, so I no longer run on high beams. I suspected that I may be having a charging issue or a battery problem. I don't know:

    My battery is 12.7 volts with ignition off; charges up to 13.7 volts with throttle, and falls to 10.8 volts when engine is first started up. I was sure that I might have a stator problem -- and it is possible that I do have a stator overheating issue, don't know -- but the DC resistance and AC voltage tests show a normal stator. I am not able to test my rectifier at this time, as I do not have the equipment to do so.

    Some kind of grounding issue? Intermittent issues are difficult to resolve so I hope that your knowledge might help me come to find the root cause of my issues!
    2013 F800GS with 50,000 miles ( 8-2021 ) 

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    A healthy battery sits between 12.7-13.2v at idle, with no draw. At charge it should be 14-14.2v, and this should be consistent throughout the rev range. It might drop depending on the electrical draw (LED spotlights, heated grips etc), but should still be above a healthy battery voltage.

    The Reg/Rec is more likely to go than the stator, so i would replace that first as they're cheap/easy to do so and go from there. They can test fine at ambient temperatures because it's the heat that causes the component failure, which comes back if/when it cools down (so long as it's not a total failed component). Mine (F800St) has been intermittent the past few weeks and i've replaced the RR today, the next few days will tell me if this was the cure . . . . .
    BMW F800ST, 2010, Black, Fuzeblock, Sat Nav, BMW Tank Bag, Givi Touring Screen, Denali Spotlights, Denali CANSmart, Wunderlich Crash Bars, 62K Miles & counting 

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    Your voltage numbers are great. 12.7 at rest and only dropping into the 10s while starting are signs of a healthy battery. 13.7 to 14.2 is the normal range that an R/R should maintain, so it and stator are doing their part.

    One set of lights (especially LED) would not be enough to lower overall voltage. The system puts out enough to keep up with plenty of extra little accessories like that. Mine can't keep up with my heated jacket and grips both on high unless I'm above idle. But it has no problems with my USB charger, accessory lights and DVR system.

    Some intermittent voltage spikes or drops would indicate R/R issue and possibly cause the symptoms you mention. A faulty ground would also cause these symptoms.

    Stators fail in the F800 (especially older ones) much more frequently than R/R. But the symptoms are that you voltage will be low which can kill a battery.

    Perhaps you could mount an inexpensive voltage meter to see what's going on while you are riding? I keep one zip tied to the upper yoke.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
    08' F800ST- side panniers & Shad SH45 top case, Russell Day Long seat, MRA Vario Windscreen, SW Motech crash bars, ZTechnik exhaust, PC-8 fuseblock, Stebel Nautilus horn, Throttlemeister throttle lock, SW Motech handlebar risers, LED fog lights, highway pegs 

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    On my 2009 F650GS the voltage is very stable, right around 14.2 volts anytime the engine is running.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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    It seems like I have alternating alternator issues. ccramerusc I did mount an inexpensive auto cigarette lighter voltage dongle to a cigarette adapter - SAE dongle to my SAE auxiliary service line. Yesterday on a 40 mile trip my bike behaved flawlessly, as voltage varied randomly in the interval (13.8, 14.2) all the way. No problems with dash display blinking, horn going off, or bike running rough and turning off. On the return leg, I ran into a lot of rain. My voltage did dip to (13.2, 13.5) and then made it back to 14.1. I don't know if this is real voltage, or if the moisture and unfathomable riding conditions caused some flukey readings. But my bike did not exhibit any flukey running conditions on the return leg.

    This morning I was going to ride my bike, and I started up, and the voltmeter read a constant 12.7 volts, like the alternator was not putting out. I didn't have time to do any trouble shooting. This afternoon, I started up my bike and measured the voltage at the battery, and it ramped up to 13.7 volts at idle, which appears to be normal for my bike.

    I'll keep an eye on things, but I guess with intermittent issues, I'll just have to wait until the next fluke out and I'll bring my voltmeter and measure the voltage at the battery. My voltmeter dongle is a cheap piece of hardware that I must put minimal faith in, particularly when voltage dipped back to 13.2 volts yesterday on my ride home.



    DJ123: Yes it could be the rectifier, or if its the stator, it could burn out the rectifier/regulator, but R/R aren't so cheap anymore. A good one is $200 US, so I'm not going that route until I can isolate the issue and make sure the stator is OK.

    I'm really challenged by what's happening. Any new ideas, I would appreciate it.
    2013 F800GS with 50,000 miles ( 8-2021 ) 

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    Ok ... here's three ways to kill some time:


    Here are some nice trouble-shooting guides:
    http://www.electrosport.com/technica...agnosis-center


    Here's what I did last time:

    With bike turned off & stator unplugged from the regulator:

    Measure wire-set coming out of stator:
    1. with meter set to "ohms" - Resistance of windings (1-2, 2-3, 1-3) should all be ~3.5 ohms and fairly even
    2. The windings 1, 2, 3 should NOT conduct to ground (i.e. they should be insulated from ground connection)
    reading "infinite" ohms....
    If shorted to ground you're all done...

    Set the volt meter to AC Volts.
    With bike rev-ed to ~4K rpm & stator unplugged Measure wire-set coming out of stator:
    1. AC output should be ~75VAC across all three "pairs" 1-2 2-3 3-1 and be fairly even



    See: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=685465
    Blue 2009 F650GS - H-B crash bars, TT luggage rack, Pelican top case, BMW Vario Panniers & bash plate, 20mm handlebar risers, LED voltmeter, Sargent seat, MudSling, a few other trinkets ... I may be just about at the end of the farkle train  

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    13.7 at the battery with the engine running sounds too low to me. If it were me I'd start with the R&R as mentioned above and then move on to the stator if that didn't resolve this issue. After you 'fix' it, be prepared for the battery to have a worse than average life as a result of being undercharged. I had a '13 F800GS a few years back and when mine started to randomly shut off the accessories (DIN plug, heated grips) I started trouble shooting with the info from the post before mine. Stator seemed good so I threw an R&R and a new battery at it, it was good from that point on until I sold it last year.

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    Mr. JR Wooden (famous name from past?)

    Yes thank you. Those are the steps that I followed when diagnosing my stator when the bike was resting in my garage overnight. Resistance across 3 pairs of leads -- 1,2,3 -- should be identically low, and also the resistance from any of the leads to ground should be open. More importantly, I tested AC voltage with rectifier disconnected from the stator, and all 3 pairs of AC voltage reading were in the neighborhood of 24 volts at idle, and up to 70 volts AC with throttle. My stator passed all of these tests when it was cold.

    Consequently, I decided to go on to test transient conditions when my motorcycle acts up and the display blinks, etc, by installing a voltmeter dongle to monitor voltage while riding the bike. This is the step that I am on now.
    2013 F800GS with 50,000 miles ( 8-2021 ) 

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    Today I rode 2 miles for coffee, and everything was ok, though my charging voltage was a bit low, 13.7 volts. On the way home, my display began to blink and the alternator stopped putting out voltage. But I kept going until my bike shutoff less than a mile from my home. Then, the bike would not start. The cranking activity was very strong, and I did hear my fuel system click on. However it would not start. I parked the bike, and several hours later, tried again. It would not start. Then I simple did a real short duration attempt to start the bike. It would not start. But on the second short duration start, it started up and bike made it home. I wish this was just my R/R, but now I am not sure what is going on. Any ideas?
    2013 F800GS with 50,000 miles ( 8-2021 ) 

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    If your RR is not working, your battery is supporting the Bike. And it will eventually die/be burned out, depending how low the voltage goes.

    The RR is cheap and easy enough to replace, and stick the battery on charge. Hopefully the battery is not damaged and can be charged back up to full and will hold its voltage.
    BMW F800ST, 2010, Black, Fuzeblock, Sat Nav, BMW Tank Bag, Givi Touring Screen, Denali Spotlights, Denali CANSmart, Wunderlich Crash Bars, 62K Miles & counting 

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ123 View Post
    If your RR is not working, your battery is supporting the Bike. And it will eventually die/be burned out, depending how low the voltage goes.

    The RR is cheap and easy enough to replace, and stick the battery on charge. Hopefully the battery is not damaged and can be charged back up to full and will hold its voltage.

    Yeah $200. But right now I have another problem that I do not understand. After my bike died, I could not restart it. There was loads of cranking power, but bike would not start. Later, instead of a long crank until it starts, I limited the start effort to a very brief period of time. Bike did not start. But with a second brief go of starting, it started fine. Alternator is putting out 13.8 volts again. It's not going up to 14 at the moment. I don't understand what's going on. Do I have a second problem, or do I have a wiring issue somewhere? I'm confused and down at the moment as my concerns about the alternator have progressed to something else which I do not fully understand. But thank you!
    2013 F800GS with 50,000 miles ( 8-2021 ) 

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    $155 for an FH020AA MOSFET R&R from Roadstercycle.com. You're going to have to start somewhere and right now the consensus is that this is the best starting point.
    Last edited by rcb78; 09-15-21 at 10:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryW View Post
    Yeah $200. But right now I have another problem that I do not understand. After my bike died, I could not restart it. There was loads of cranking power, but bike would not start. Later, instead of a long crank until it starts, I limited the start effort to a very brief period of time. Bike did not start. But with a second brief go of starting, it started fine. Alternator is putting out 13.8 volts again. It's not going up to 14 at the moment. I don't understand what's going on. Do I have a second problem, or do I have a wiring issue somewhere? I'm confused and down at the moment as my concerns about the alternator have progressed to something else which I do not fully understand. But thank you!
    Your stator/alternator goes through the RR. If your stator is fine, but your RR is not you'll still have an electrical issue.

    i would start by resolving this first, to see if it assists in the other issues you mentioned in the first post. I would also get your battery tested to ensure it still has 6 healthy cells and is capable of producing the CCA needed.
    BMW F800ST, 2010, Black, Fuzeblock, Sat Nav, BMW Tank Bag, Givi Touring Screen, Denali Spotlights, Denali CANSmart, Wunderlich Crash Bars, 62K Miles & counting 

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    It's a bit messy buying from Roadstercycle for me. It seems like you have to cut the stator 3 wire connector, do some crimping and patching of wires to attach an alternative connector to the R/R. 2013 models have a very tight space to work in. Have to remove a small frame cover; cut a small zip tie, undo the rear brake cylinder from the frame, undo the R/R from the frame, and still its difficult to impossible to get my fingers behind the frame to work with that connector. So prefer plug and play. Any suggestions?

    I'm thinking about Rick's Motorsports Hot Shot Regulator/Rectifier

    Item Number: 324939
    4.7 stars 21 Reviews
    $164.95

    Reviews are good! Not sure that I need MOSFET technology.

    Sorry, not greatly mechanically inclined, but I do eventually get things done!

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    Sounds like you got this then. Let us know how it works out for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcb78 View Post
    Sounds like you got this then. Let us know how it works out for you.
    As you know, on Tuesday I experienced some flukey events. When I left my coffee shop, I noticed that my voltage was not stable and falling in the low 13's volts. A mile later, the alternator stopped putting out voltage, but my battery stayed at 12.7 volts. My LCD display blinked on and off two times, and later my bike stalled out and I had to abandon it less than a mile from my home when it would not start. I still cannot understand why my LCD display blinks on and off, and often my horn goes off.

    But anyway, overnight I trickle charged my battery, took it out in the morning and went to Advance Auto Parts to get it tested. It didn't just pass, it blew away the specs. My battery is rated for 220 cold cranking amps (CCA) but it put out 452 CCA when it was tested.

    Any on Wednesday I rode my bike locally, over 35 miles, with several stops and several red lights. On Thursday, I rode over 90 miles on country roads. Amazingly, my battery voltage stayed at an even 14.2 volts the whole time, as if everything was OK with my alternator and battery. The perfect alternator performance floored me as I was not expecting that. And I cannot figure out why!

    Anyway, I did order a MOSFET R/R and I hope to receive it by Monday. It should be a lot easier to install than a new stator. Of course, I expect my alternator to continue to work perfectly once this new unit is installed. And so, given the intermittent, flukey behavior of my bike, I hope to not have any followup news to report until I run my bike for a while under various conditions.

    I wish that I could take my bike to BMW to talk to a mechanic and ask him why my LCD display blinks, my heated grips go half on, and my horn goes off when I have these flukey problems, but I do not regard my Palm Bay location to be friendly enough to chat it up with me unless I check my bike into service.

    Any followup suggestions from anyone in the peanut gallery have would be greatly appreciated. But I have listened, an a new regulator rectifier is on its way.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    2013 F800GS with 50,000 miles ( 8-2021 ) 

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    Perhaps the battery terminals or the connecting wires had some corrosion on them that that was reducing the voltage supplied by the battery somewhat, which was removed when you took out your battery to be tested and now you are getting a better connection than you were before.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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    I'd like to think that you are right, Richard230! I'm getting a perfect 14.2 volts that holds steady now. But my new Mosfet R/R is arriving on Tuesday, and I am still planning on keeping it and installing it. Fingers crossed!!

    PS I am not familiar with how power gets distributed in my bike. I might have to study that next. LOL
    2013 F800GS with 50,000 miles ( 8-2021 ) 

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    Sorry I'm a bit more ADHD than normal these days...................

    One comment on the no-start:

    It seems the system was not being charged when this happened, so battery voltage was lower than usual ...
    As a result of having been drained somewhat by having to power the bike with no recharging going on

    BMW runs the fuel injectors on a knocked-down voltage so there is a "range" of voltage (I don't know exactly what is is... )
    where the battery is strong enough to crank the bike but there's not enough voltage to trip the injectors....

    The above comment is not me talking ... I'm channeling the voice of Joel Wisman one of the smartest bike guys I know ...

    ~~

    When I replaced my R/R I cut the plugs of a discarded OEM unit and spliced the plugs from it onto my new R/R so that I did not have to mess with the bike harness.
    Blue 2009 F650GS - H-B crash bars, TT luggage rack, Pelican top case, BMW Vario Panniers & bash plate, 20mm handlebar risers, LED voltmeter, Sargent seat, MudSling, a few other trinkets ... I may be just about at the end of the farkle train  

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    JRWooden: Thank you so much for your reply. Your hypothesis channeled from thoughts or Joel Wisman do resonate as a possibility. I noted that when I was able to start my bike, I did so using short, brief starting actions, twice, when bike started. Perhaps a long starting action uses up too much energy for system to have adequate electrical energy to trigger the fuel injectors. I would like to think so. After 5 days of riding, my bike is still holding at 14.2 volts alternator output. Hmm, but new R/R will be installed on Tuesday, just in case.

    My MOSFET R/R from Ricks is plug and play. I really don't think that it is prudent to crimp together connectors between two very important alternator components. Hope that the crimped connector on your used plug from Stator wires is solid, as I am sure that it is!
    2013 F800GS with 50,000 miles ( 8-2021 ) 

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    I think the voltage knockdown could explain your start thing...

    Like you I am not a fan of crimp connectors for wires that carry substantial current... I soldered the connections and used heat-shrink to insulate ...

    Best of luck ... hoping it's an intermittent of your R/R and the new one will fix you up!
    Blue 2009 F650GS - H-B crash bars, TT luggage rack, Pelican top case, BMW Vario Panniers & bash plate, 20mm handlebar risers, LED voltmeter, Sargent seat, MudSling, a few other trinkets ... I may be just about at the end of the farkle train  

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrwooden View Post
    I think the voltage knockdown could explain your start thing...

    Like you I am not a fan of crimp connectors for wires that carry substantial current... I soldered the connections and used heat-shrink to insulate ...

    Best of luck ... hoping it's an intermittent of your R/R and the new one will fix you up!
    My Ricks motorsports R/R arrived yesterday. The cabling is plug and play, but the attachment to the frame is not quite plug and play. The unit has a slot on both ends, instead of a bolt hole on one end, and a cutout on the other for sliding onto the clip built into the chassis frame. But, I was able to bolt the unit down.

    However, when I first started up my bike after installing it, it was a very rough start. The voltage took a long time to build up, and it only built up to 14 volts, though the unit is rated 14.5-14.8 volts. ( Is 14.8 volts too high for a F800GS?) So I called Ricks and they issued an RMA and are sending me a new unit. Hope this one meets spec. BTW, just to be sure, I checked the stator resistances, and made sure that the stator is not grounded. The AC voltages were all nicely aligned at 24.5 AC volts idle, and up to 70 volts AC upon revving the throttle. So, if the voltage cannot meet spec, it must be the replacement R/R unit. It's a good thing that I checked the output of my new R/R unit!
    2013 F800GS with 50,000 miles ( 8-2021 ) 

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    charging voltage should be 14.2v-14.4v tops. This might drop down slightly if you have LED accessory lights on/high beam/heated grips etc. But the charging voltage should still be stable.
    BMW F800ST, 2010, Black, Fuzeblock, Sat Nav, BMW Tank Bag, Givi Touring Screen, Denali Spotlights, Denali CANSmart, Wunderlich Crash Bars, 62K Miles & counting 

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    Make sure that however you modified the mount still allows the body of the unit to get a good ground connection to the frame.

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    My quick thoughts are that 14.8 is too high and I'd be absolutely fine with 14.0V
    Greg

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